Why we call him Smokey (can you help?)

In general this truck just smokes and runs bad. This was/is planed to be my doner for my 76 project. I have a second engine for parts swapping but need to know where to start. I am very new to these.

So if a pic is worth a 1000 words then this vid should be worth a 1000 pics?

This is 29Mb (the youtube vid is having issues.
http://www.deanstud.com/videos/Smokey.wmv

It has new glow plugs and new injectors. I am sure it needs to be timed. I did the injectors but a PO did the glow plugs. It sounds like a dead hole or 2 but we do not know for sure. I worry that the PO did not do the GP's right and left a tip in a hole. Bent valve? Far as I know it has not been overheated.

It was warm today and I let the GP's do there thing and I gave it no fuel.

Let me know what you think please,

Calvin

6xCrew said:

In general this truck just smokes and runs bad. This was/is planed to be my doner for my 76 project. I have a second engine for parts swapping but need to know where to start. I am very new to these.

So if a pic is worth a 1000 words then this vid should be worth a 1000 pics?

This is 29Mb (the youtube vid is having issues.
http://www.deanstud.com/videos/Smokey.wmv

It has new glow plugs and new injectors. I am sure it needs to be timed. I did the injectors but a PO did the glow plugs. It sounds like a dead hole or 2 but we do not know for sure. I worry that the PO did not do the GP's right and left a tip in a hole. Bent valve? Far as I know it has not been overheated.

It was warm today and I let the GP's do there thing and I gave it no fuel.

Let me know what you think please,

Calvin

Click to expand...

Has the IP ever been off of it? Symptoms kinda' look/sound like what was wrong with mine when I first got it. Smoked like a house on fire, lots of "powerstroke rattle" and W-A-A-Y underpowered (like it had a couple of dead cylinders).

Turns out the PO took the IP off, rotated the crank 360 degrees, and then put the IP back on - so the timing was 180 degrees out. Believe it or not they actually will run that way - though they run pretty lousy....

All that and I forgot a symptom, sorry.

Under load I get a lot of popping and nasty sounds. Not sure how to explain it really. Kind of like a backfire, loud popping from the exhaust.

The PO had messed with the IP but not sure how much. Right now the timing markes (guessing that is what they are) are lined to each other. The other engine I have is advanced (?) a couple degrees.

Is there an easy way to tell if the timing is 180 off?

Thanks again,

Calvin

I pulled the PS valve cover and rotated the engine until both valves were closed (TDC) on the front cylinder (#1) and the timing mark on the harmonic balancer was lined up with the zero mark.

Then I pulled the front access cover off the IP gear housing (this is also the oil filler neck on my 86 - probably yours too judging by your avatar picture). Behind the filler neck/access cover you will see the 3 bolts that hold the gear to the shaft of the IP and the dowel pin that makes sure the gear goes on the shaft the right way. When #1 is at TDC that dowel pin should be in the 4 o'clock position. If it isn't, then your IP gear isn't indexed correctly with the cam gear - which is between it and the crank gear.

If you follow these instructions, don't be too surprised if, when you pull the filler neck/access cover, you find the IP dowel in the 10 o'clock position - meaning that your IP is 180 degrees out of time. Check it out, and if you find that is the case let me know and I can send you a link to Ziggster's page showing you how to re-index the timing gears WITHOUT pulling all the accessories, water pump, and timing cover off the front of the motor.

Or you can always do it the way I did and rotate the engine another 360 degrees to where #4 cylinder is at TDC with the 0 degree mark on the harmonic balancer aligned with the timing pointer. That will put the dowel in the 4 o'clock position, and at that point you can then make alignment marks inside the opening of the access/filler neck hole in the IP gear housing - one on each side of the dowel. Then you rotate the engine another 360 degrees until the harmonic balancer is back at the zero timing mark again, unbolt and lift up the IP gear housing and rotate the pump gear 180 degrees to where the dowel lines up between the marks you made, and then bolt the IP gear cover back down.

I did mine this way before I found ziggster's page and it worked out great, but while his method is a little more complicated it is a lot more precise. The method I used could have resulted in it still being one tooth (or more) off, but it didn't in my case. The only advantage to my method is that you don't have to disconnect all the IP lines and such - whereas you do if you're going to do it following ziggster's method....

6xCrew said:

All that and I forgot a symptom, sorry.

Under load I get a lot of popping and nasty sounds. Not sure how to explain it really. Kind of like a backfire, loud popping from the exhaust.

The PO had messed with the IP but not sure how much. Right now the timing markes (guessing that is what they are) are lined to each other. The other engine I have is advanced (?) a couple degrees.

Is there an easy way to tell if the timing is 180 off?

Thanks again,

Calvin

Click to expand...

sounds like you might have some weak or broken valvesprings or bad rockers, dont run it till you find out , pull valve covers and have a look. If it drops a valve it will get expensive. I am close to you so we can do some diagnosis in person.

Based on the color of the smoke, and the rocking of the motor, my money is on a valve also. Mine made what sounded like setonation in a gasser when the valve went. I drove from Myrtle Beach SC to PA like that. Virtually no compression on #5. Valve hit the piston, push rods bent and destroyed two lifters. Yeah, don't run it!

typ4 said:

I am close to you so we can do some diagnosis in person.

Click to expand...

I like the sound of this. Everything else scares me... Send a mail when you get a chance. I am pretty sure I have it listed. On yahoo messenger as Calvin349 too.

I will pop a valve cover or 2 and have a look. Maybe I should pull a head on the other engine too and see if they are good. If I can make 2 into one that would be just fine by me. I really want an IDI in my 76. Worst case I can run my 390 in it to get me by. It never has let me down.

Thanks everyone for the thoughts,

Calvin

A compression test might be a good idea, that and have a look under the valve covers. It could be that the timing is too far advanced. Mine kind of ran that way when I had the gear timing 2 teeth too far advanced and the pump timing very advanced as well. Check the gear timing and valve train...you have a significant miss. You could also idle it and one at a time loosen the injection lines at the injector 1/4-1/2 turn and see what happens if you have a dead cylinder you should find it when the rpm doesn't drop or drops less than with the others. Keep us posted....you should find 2 good heads between the 2 motors.

6xCrew said:

So if a pic is worth a 1000 words then this vid should be worth a 1000 pics?

Let me know what you think please,

Calvin

Click to expand...

Here is a link to the youtube version of the video.


Yes I have heard that a picture is worth a thousand words. This video has 2,761frames, therefore it must be worth 2,761,000 words.

The pump has been off, as a matter of fact he had to put it on and the injectors back IN before we loaded it on the trailer when I got it.

Now he didn't "set it" and told me it would need to be timed. So when I got to tinkering with it, I aligned the marks. I have no way of knowing if it then was set correctly or not.

The drivers side valve cover is off and all appears to be fine. The passenger side looks more difficult and we have allot of projects going so we haven't gotten around TUIT. I looked up compression testers, and they seem to cost 6.2 trillion dollars, so I guess that is out for awhile too.

Well, I think you can get a decent one from Harbor Freight Tools for around $50+ $10 for the adapter+ shipping. You're right on the pass. side valve cover. If you can take the condenser core/airbox cover off, you have just enough room to wiggle it in and out...tight, but we did it. I don't know if that's still too much for your budget and time...but its something to look into. Good luck,
JD

Diesel JD said:

Well, I think you can get a decent one from Harbor Freight Tools for around $50+ $10 for the adapter+ shipping. You're right on the pass. side valve cover. If you can take the condenser core/airbox cover off, you have just enough room to wiggle it in and out...tight, but we did it. I don't know if that's still too much for your budget and time...but its something to look into. Good luck,
JD

Click to expand...

Excelent!. Forgot all about that place and we even have one local.

Thanks,

Calvin

Make sure its available, and they might have to order you one. Mine is a foster I believe, goes up to 1000 PSI, seems to be a strong unit. Only problem I hav had with it is getting that darn quick disconnect to fit over the glow plug adapter its tight in there and it has to seal perfectly...or you'll scare yourself...with a 0 reading!