Wandered up from the Basement - Got a couple ?'s

[apextrans]

Hey guys,

I'm an IDI guy from downstairs & don't know anything about the Cummins Motors. I've seen a few clean 01 2500 quadcab 4 x 4's recently that could be had pretty reasonably through a wholesaler I haul for. I'm not hell bent on this yet because I love my IDI, but the curiousity is there.

1. How do I tell the difference between HO & non-HO motors?

2. Is the difference between the two HP ratings only or are the internals different on an HO 5.9?

3. How easy is it to mod these things? What would be the order of upgrades?

4. I guess the most important question would be, what should I look for as a good starter truck in stock form? It would have to be a Quad cab & 4WD.

I know these are basic (probably moronic) questions, but I gotta start somewhere. Thanks.

 

[IDIeselman]

 

[argve]

Scott,

I can't answer your questions because well frankly I don't know (I'm a 12v guy and still new at that)...

But from my understanding you need to keep your eye out for the infamous 53 block - there was just a post from last week on here where one failed... so it's something to consider when your looking at the 24V models.

If you go to google and type in 53 block cummins you will have a good read ahead of you.

 

[apextrans]

Easy...Easy... just asking some questions. Keeping my eyes open, that's all.

Geez, I said I love my IDI .

Travis, is 12V a better setup than the 24V? I know the 12V is the older of the two, but that's all I know.

 

[pafixitman]

is 12V a better setup than the 24V?

IDI versus PSD is how I understand it. Now, get back where you belong. Do I have to stop by the house?

 

[apextrans]

For the love of God man, am I the only one who hasn't been using the stairs out of the basement? I expected some responses from people who weren't IDI'ers. & I was hoping nobody would know I inquired about being a trader...possibly. So much for that!! I've been offered my pick of two very clean 01's for auction price, so I figured I'd found out what to look at, if I was gonna do anything at all.

Your welcome to stop by the house anytime you want!! OK,OK.... I'm headed for the steps now...................

 

[pafixitman]

I work w/ a goat boy. He actually sold Mel the Moosestang donor truck. I'll see if he can reply for ya, ok?

"Hi, I'm Joe. I am an IDI owner and have riden in a Dodge, Cummins powered truck." Make you feel any better?

BTW- Why do I own a Chevy minivan, Chrysler daily driver and an IDI? They were the right price when I needed a vehicle.

 

[Headhunter_5.9]

Well I can't be for sure on the first 2 questions but number 3 I can cover!

Modding any Cummins is simple! it all depends how big your check book is and how much power you want to put to one, most of the "boxes/chips" out there can be installed in under a half hour. I can take mine out and put it back in in less than 5 min! it's as simple as unhooking the boost module (MAP sensor for you ford guys) and plugging that into the chip and plugging the chip into the boost module THEN plug the chip into the diag, port! and you got instant power!

as far as what kinda box/chip that's another topic of discussion in it's own! they all serve their purpose but some are rougher on the trucks than others! I'll remain brand neutral!

What to look for?>> all depends what you have in mind for the truck in my opinion and the price!

my pennies worth!

 

[argve]

Easy...Easy... just asking some questions. Keeping my eyes open, that's all.

Geez, I said I love my IDI .

Travis, is 12V a better setup than the 24V? I know the 12V is the older of the two, but that's all I know.

From the dyno sheets I seen in TDR mag a while back they showed the curves of all the generations of the 5.9l cummins put in Dodge trucks - the thing that struck me was that with the 24v the torque curve was flatter as compared to that of the 12v so in stock trim the 24V is going to have more hp available across the board. Now once you start modifing then the ball game changes. I have driven a stock 12v p-pump (94-98) and a stock 24v (2nd gen 98-01 - or is it 02 ) and in stock trim both trucks felt like The Enterprise powerwise unloaded on test drives - now the 24v did feel a little stronger than the 12v - not by much but was a little stronger.

Most cases where a guy is going for big hp they typically choose the 12v p-pumped trucks because the ease of squeezing power out is simply cheaper - but the advantage of being able to select different levels of power at a teist of a knob is real appealing to me - that is just personal choice...

So I would say that there really is no clear winner in my eyes because you can get the 2nd gen body style with either a 12v or 24v but you can't get a 24v with the common rail injection unless you go for the 3rd gen look (current body style being produced). So I guess it boils down to "do you want electronically controlled or mechaincally controlled" since your looking at 2nd gen body styles.

One of the things to keep in mind is if you get a 24 valve is that the rotary injection pump on the 2nd gen 24v is lubed/cooled by the fuel so it is very important that you have a good working lift pump which is known to fail in short order on these trucks. When it fails it takes out the injection pump which can set you back upwards of 2 grand - it's easily avoided by making sure that you have good fuel pressure and keeping an eye on it or just installing an aftermarket pump set up. Now I just read the other day somewhere (can't remember at the moment) that Dodge has come out with a replacement system for the infamous lift pump that they installed on the 24 2nd gen trucks where they relocate the lift pump in the fuel tank so that it mimics the 3rd gen trucks. I gather that is the end all to lift pump problems - I remember reading where the stock lift pump is no longer available through DC Corp - all they provide now is the updated system. Don't know costs involved but suspect that it's not cheap considering it's a dealer item. But then again there is still the aftermarket pump systems FASS and the like.

 

[apextrans]

Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks for the details. I, like you, would prefer power at the twist of a knob. However, I'm not looking to build a monster pulling truck or anything. A few "holy crap"'s would suit me fine. I wouldn't even be talking about this if the price wasn't right, so I'll have to get more info on the available trucks & go from there. At least I know a little more to lookfor & consider.

 

[Mike]

Those damn IDI guys can be brutal Scott.

 

[2500cummins]

Hey guys,

I'm an IDI guy from downstairs & don't know anything about the Cummins Motors. I've seen a few clean 01 2500 quadcab 4 x 4's recently that could be had pretty reasonably through a wholesaler I haul for. I'm not hell bent on this yet because I love my IDI, but the curiousity is there.

1. How do I tell the difference between HO & non-HO motors?

2. Is the difference between the two HP ratings only or are the internals different on an HO 5.9?

3. How easy is it to mod these things? What would be the order of upgrades?

4. I guess the most important question would be, what should I look for as a good starter truck in stock form? It would have to be a Quad cab & 4WD.

I know these are basic (probably moronic) questions, but I gotta start somewhere. Thanks.

#1
All '98.5 and '99 are SO (ETC engine)
All '00 to '02 6 speed trucks are HO (ETH engine)
All '00 to '02 auto and 5 speed trucks are SO.

#2
HO engines use a different injection pump and pistons, I think the compression ratio is higher?? I've never heard of changes in the head or bottom end.

#3
Easy to mod
First gauges, pyro, fuel pressure, boost.
Next, improved lift pump, 4" exhaust, air filter mods.
after that how much HP?? and how much $$
300 RW HP is easy with box and mild injectors, boost will be around 30 psi and the head gasket should be fine at this level, the stock clutch usually gives up shortly after that, a stock auto probably wont last long at 300hp, the stock turbo will be done somwhere between 300hp and 350hp.
Above this level just pay to play$$
Turbo, Wire tap box, bigger injectors might get you around 450 hp, somewhere around here you'll need to start thinking about head gaskets and studs, etc, etc,

#4
The early '98s Were 12v with a quad cab.... :Sly
Auto's will need help at anything over stock HP, probably even at stock Hp. Most 5 speed trucks will lose 5th gear by 150k, I dont hear of many problems with the 6 speed trucks.
I think the '00.5 trucks got rear disc brakes..
53 block is a known problem on the early 24v engines...

 

[Mike]

#3
Easy to mod
First gauges, pyro, fuel pressure, boost.
Next, improved lift pump, 4" exhaust, air filter mods.
after that how much HP?? and how much $$
300 RW HP is easy with box and mild injectors, boost will be around 30 psi and the head gasket should be fine at this level, the stock clutch usually gives up shortly after that, a stock auto probably wont last long at 300hp, the stock turbo will be done somwhere between 300hp and 350hp.
Above this level just pay to play$$
Turbo, Wire tap box, bigger injectors might get you around 450 hp, somewhere around here you'll need to start thinking about head gaskets and studs, etc, etc,

Not trying to start a flame war or competition here, but that is the exact recipie used to mod a PSD.

 

[sle2115]

Not trying to start a flame war or competition here, but that is the exact recipie used to mod a PSD.

But he has a potential good deal on a Cummins!

 

[Mike]

But he has a potential good deal on a Cummins!

Zactly, my comment was aimed at 2500cummins just for conversational purposes. I figured most of the IDI guys had already pulled this thread into the ditch, my comments couldnt hurt it any further.