Hypermax is going to make a Fire Ring for the idi!

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

George, yes they did but they made a total of 10 sets back in the late 80's and never made anymore. They had one set sit on the shelf until last year when Eric Sutton bought them. He's the one that started all of this. I called a while back and started talking to hypermax's engineer about those gaskets and kept bugging him about them until he said he'd seen and heard enough and thought it worth while to atleast look into the possibility of making a new updated design of what they used to make. I personally have not heard anything from Hypermax about making a gasket that doesn't require machining. Thats the one I've been trying to push them to develop but I think they want to see how well the C ring gaskets hit off before putting real R&D time into another gasket. He called me today while I was at work so he might have another update. I'll call him again tomorrow and post up what else he has to say.

 

[CountryBoy81]

I hope they do get it done. Will be needing a set when I stud my heads this summer

 

[George D.]

Yeah Able had talked to them to get ideas for his truck alitle while befor they were bought up then. IIRC with the boost he was talking about running over 20psi they steered him away from the Crings I can't remember why the things that come to mind are they said he didn't need them or that they leaked alitle oil but I could be way off.

My question is do we need this? Do we even know at wat point is too much boost for the avalible headgaskets with studs? Or perhaps I missed the point and these are just for the 7.3 to eliminate the need for the ridiculously expensive studs? And if these questions were already answered in this thread and I forgot from the last time I read this thread feel free to tell me I'm retarted.

6 Nebraska IDIs is there a thread on here about eric sutons install and how they worked out?

 

[88beast]

stock gaskets with studs torqued properly to 150% should have no issues with 25-30 psi.
problems come in when the torque pattern is not followed, the incriments are off (when i do stud mine its getting new gaskets with 15lb incriments), head or block deformities, and faulty gaskets.

millitary mechs do 25 lb incriments to 300 ft pounds on a circle or 40 some bolts why cant you?

 

[icanfixall]

When I worked in the power generating field years ago we had a dump valve that would drop pressure from 3500 lbs down to about 50 lbs. The studs were 2 1/2 inch diameter and fine threads. Torque was 9600 lbs... Because they were new in the industry at the time the factory engineers had to witness all the assembley or take downs done by us. They required and witnessed the torque.... Each step was 62.5 lbs from 300 lbs on up to 9600 lbs.... Thank god we had a hydraulic torque wrench called a hi Torque. Oh yeah.... All this work was done 180 ft in the air off the side of a bolier outside the hand railing... 22 nuts on those studs.. Engineers had no prectical field experiance. Out torque wrench couldn't make the 62.5 lbs. The pressure gauge was in 20 lb divisions for each 100 lbs. One hell of a job... So we really don't have it that bad guys...

 

[OkieTruckerD]

As for fuel delivery, does someone make a P-pump for our beloved IDI's?

 

[redneckaggie]

stock gaskets with studs torqued properly to 150% should have no issues with 25-30 psi.
problems come in when the torque pattern is not followed, the incriments are off (when i do stud mine its getting new gaskets with 15lb incriments), head or block deformities, and faulty gaskets.

and you KNOW this how? and what is this bs about over torqueing bolts, when you over torque bolts it actually stretches things and screws up threads so you are really not helping yourself any. not trying to be a **** but you put it out there as a fact and I want to know how its been proven. I dont think i know hardly anyone who has pushed boost that high on these engines. not saying that they cant handle more than 10 psi just trying to say that when you say that someone can venture into uncharted territory and be fine I want to know how you can gaurantee that

 

[88 Ford]

and you KNOW this how? and what is this bs about over torqueing bolts, when you over torque bolts it actually stretches things and screws up threads so you are really not helping yourself any. not trying to be a **** but you put it out there as a fact and I want to know how its been proven. I dont think i know hardly anyone who has pushed boost that high on these engines. not saying that they cant handle more than 10 psi just trying to say that when you say that someone can venture into uncharted territory and be fine I want to know how you can gaurantee that

Racin and NMB2 both overtorqued their studs but I'm not quite sure off the top of my head what they torqued them to though. They went higher than Arp specs though.

 

[sle2115]

and you KNOW this how? and what is this bs about over torqueing bolts, when you over torque bolts it actually stretches things and screws up threads so you are really not helping yourself any. not trying to be a **** but you put it out there as a fact and I want to know how its been proven. I dont think i know hardly anyone who has pushed boost that high on these engines. not saying that they cant handle more than 10 psi just trying to say that when you say that someone can venture into uncharted territory and be fine I want to know how you can gaurantee that

Was going to ask the same question. And here is where the "old guys" get labelled as slamming the new guys "thinking out of the box". When someone (legitimate across the board) does this and proves it to be the case over thousands of miles, then it will be fact...I'd like to know how we know things like this, of course, don't question it or we are unable to think out of the box. There are guys that have put some miles on high boost numbers, there have also been some failures.

 

[sle2115]

Racin and NMB2 both overtorqued their studs but I'm not quite sure off the top of my head what they torqued them to though. They went higher than Arp specs though.

And how many miles do either of them have on them? I'd say they proved one thing, you can over torque them. But there is also a problem with over torquing, that I have seen, have years building engines to prove it happens, when you over torque, you are taking the stretch to the limit in many cases, so when you get thermal expansion, it often pushes the limits of the bolt/stud in question. Is it done, yep, it is, been there, seen it in engines that make tons of horsepower but failure is common as well, just like anything where you push the limits. We built 5-6 engines each spring for a national sprint car driver, generally, by the midway through the season, 3-4 were back in for more work. Not the kind of reliability most of us want from our trucks.

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

Well put. I worked at a tool and die shop for years building industrial machines. We never took the bolts past their limits. For one we were not allowed to by engineering specs or it would be our ass, and second its been tried and proven to cause premature failure in the fastener. I have yet to see an overtorqued fastener have the longevity and reliability as one that was used within its intended specs.

 

[sle2115]

Honestly, I'm not trying to start a ******* contest...I've seen a lot in my years of existence motor wise. I hope it all works for NMB2 and Racin, honestly I do and I read and watch with anticipation, I love to learn new tricks as much as the next guy. I've pushed the limits as well, used to do it every weekend when I drag raced, and I knew everytime I dropped the hammer, I'd have 700+ horsepower and some more when the second stage of Nitrous hit the intake...what I didn't know was rather I was gonna drive it or winch it on the trailer...I don't want to wonder about my truck. Would I like more power, absolutely, but not at the expense of reliability. I do like to see guys pushing the limits, but I hate to see a guy/gal get a new truck and think it's ok to torque the studs to 150% of their advised torque level because someone said it's ok because someone pushing the limits said it was ok.

 

[FordGuy100]

I overtorqued mine just a skosch when I did head gaskets. I dont think I went more than 5-10% over the value ARP said to do.

That said I dont know if it will help or hurt. Its just one of those things that we wont know until something pops.

 

[sle2115]

I overtorqued mine just a skosch when I did head gaskets. I dont think I went more than 5-10% over the value ARP said to do.

That said I dont know if it will help or hurt. Its just one of those things that we wont know until something pops.

I've read of several going slightly over, mainly to adjust for rough block threads, etc. I don't think the studs will ever know the difference between 5-10%, but 50% is a different story. Maybe they'll never fail, maybe they will, that is their choice and I'm sure they know the risks, I guess that is my point, someone new to these engines might take this as the gospel, not a rare practice.

 

[The Warden]

Scott and Sean, very well put IMHO. Thank you both.

FWIW when I installed my ARP studs, I called ARP and asked them about over-torquing them...because I was also installing a turbo and the turbo's instructions said to overtorque by 10 ft-lbs. The ARP technical representative recommended that I compromise and add 5 ft-lbs to ARP's specifications (ARP's paperwork said to torque to 85 ft-lbs)...so I ended up overtorquing to 90 ft-lbs. That was over 7 years and 45K miles ago and I haven't had any issues whatsoever relating to that...so, based on that and the fact that I did this with ARP's blessing, I would say that that is a safe level with a 6.9l.

Again, FWIW...of course, that's overtorquing by 5 ft-lbs, not by 150%...