Finding more gears

[towcat]

Spicer 6 and 6+1 are not worth the grief of engineering to make work in our pickups. They look and cost like a bigger trans, but are only heat treated gear faces. too many wannabe big-rig jockeys will float the gears until the treatment wears off and the soft material starts wearing. as a result, the entire internals have to be replaced. just the trans itself weighs more than a Honda.
do yourself a favor and just move up to a 10speed.

 

[fsmyth]

Oh oh, well you shoulda said it that way! Ok, for use in a pickup truck, yes the IDI uses an adapter plate, but it's not SAE or anything else standard. What happened there is Ford cast their own transmission bellhousings in such a way that 4 of their 6 bolts line up with holes drilled and tapped into the IDI block. Because the remaining (top) two bolt holes in the IDI block fall behind the flywheel Ford could not use them for the bellhousing like with the other 4, so they made the 1" thick plate that is kinda horseshoe shaped and goes all around the flywheel but also sneaks in behind it as well - the plate is bolted to the engine block with those two short bolts that fall behind the flywheel, then the two trans bolts thread into that plate above the flywheel, and the remaining 4 bolts are those that I mentioned first and they go thru the adapter plate and thread into the engine block.

Unfortunately this means the only transmissions that will directly bolt up to an IDI with said adapter plate are several 4-speeds (three T19s, two NP 435s, one T18) and the ZF5 5-speed (comes in two gear ratios). Nothing else will fit without either modding the adapter plate (ZF6) or entirely replacing it in favor of a SAE 2 adapter from a medium duty truck (or bus).

Now THAT'S what I was looking for.
Sorry about the confusion - sometimes I can't explain myself well.
The SAE 2 adapter is the key; I'm afraid the pickup transmissions wouldn't hold up well.
The C-70 IS a medium-duty truck. The Spicer that is in it looks about twice as big as
the pictures I have seen posted on the above mentioned transmissions.
And it is using both PTO slots

The main reason I want a diesel in it is because of the torque at low engine speeds.
The gas engine has no power unless you rev it, and it makes pulling stumps VERY interesting.
So, it's a toss-up between 1) engine for C-70, or 2) winch for the Mack.
(or 3. quit pulling stumps).
Both are single-axle, but the Mack has no bed, so no rolling tailboard.

 

[rustygold]

So what it seems like ford and International 444 was not made by the same castings

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[fsmyth]

So what it seems like ford and International 444 was not made by the same castings

Is this correct? The pickup and truck engines are different?

 

[snicklas]

So what it seems like ford and International 444 was not made by the same castings

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Is this correct? The pickup and truck engines are different?

No, the block castings are the same, with the same bolt pattern on the back of the block. Actually all the 6.9IDI, 7.3IDI, 7.3PSD/T444E, 6.0PSD/VT365, and 6.4PSD/MAXXFORCE 8 (Ford Name/IH Name) engines came off the exact same lines at the engine plant on English Avenue, here in Indianapolis. The ADAPTER plate that bolts to the back of the engine, between the block and bellhousing is different. The Ford adapter is the adapter for the bellhousing and the starter bolts to it. In the Medium Duty trucks/busses, the engine mounts are also built into the adapter plate, plus the transmission bolt pattern and starter.

So you can take an IDI out of a School Bus, or U-Haul truck and put it in a Ford pickup if you change some of the bolt on accessories (exhaust manifolds, oil cooler (I think), adapter plate, engine mounts) and it will work just fine. The only real "difference" you WILL notice is the IP in the Medium Duty applications is governed at like ~2400RPM WOT and the Ford pump is ~3600RPM WOT. But, that can be swapped also.....

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Spicer 6 and 6+1 are not worth the grief of engineering to make work in our pickups. They look and cost like a bigger trans, but are only heat treated gear faces. too many wannabe big-rig jockeys will float the gears until the treatment wears off and the soft material starts wearing. as a result, the entire internals have to be replaced. just the trans itself weighs more than a Honda.
do yourself a favor and just move up to a 10speed.

Yeah I've been warned about not floating a newer MDT transmission if I ever got to drive one, "they got synchros for a reason". And now I know the reason!

But yeah, clutching all the time wouldn't bother me one bit - the lousy shift pattern on the other hand totally bugs me, like someone mentioned already the heck with trying to find the right gear with loose shifter pivots and the truck bouncing on rough roads... The 10-speed, I may have missed a gear once, maybe. Shifts like a 4-speed too, kinda. The 7-speed disaster, it shifted sorta like a ZF, but not really, overall pretty horrible for my liking. But it was abused, so there is that. Still I think they're worth a consideration if one can find them in decent shape for decent money... If unknown condition, yeah 10-speed all the way!

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Now THAT'S what I was looking for.
Sorry about the confusion - sometimes I can't explain myself well.
The SAE 2 adapter is the key; I'm afraid the pickup transmissions wouldn't hold up well.
The C-70 IS a medium-duty truck. The Spicer that is in it looks about twice as big as
the pictures I have seen posted on the above mentioned transmissions.
And it is using both PTO slots

The main reason I want a diesel in it is because of the torque at low engine speeds.
The gas engine has no power unless you rev it, and it makes pulling stumps VERY interesting.
So, it's a toss-up between 1) engine for C-70, or 2) winch for the Mack.
(or 3. quit pulling stumps).
Both are single-axle, but the Mack has no bed, so no rolling tailboard.

Yeah I know what C-70 is, was looking for one a while ago, ended up with the Ford version, and it was all downhill from there. You lucked out in the transmission department tho, ours had an Allison slushbox, the she-devil killed that one nice and good! Rocking an RTO now, life is much better Tho I still have no idea what exactly your Spicer is, I know there are several models for the different GVW ranges (and therefore sizes), but I'm simply not familiar with them as I never had to actually mess with one. Still, if she has the SAE 2 bell, then you need a SAE 2 adapter off a S-series International medium-duty. I may actually be getting one of those this week, if that happens I'll upload pics for you to know what to look for...

Winch for the Mack may actually end up more expensive than a whole IDI install... Even old and beat up looking ones tend to hold their value pretty good. Hmm, wonder how much work it would be to try running one off a wrecked wrecker body, the big PTO-driven ones for the boom lines - you got no bed so you certainly got the space for it.

 

[rustygold]

If you get the sae housing for a 7.3, then my other question is what about clutch splines and input size are they the same? Or the make different ones. I know they make different sizes of clutch.

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[LCAM-01XA]

That's the other part of the fun, from what I recall there are at least two different shaft sizes. Pretty sure one was 1-3/4", but it's been so long everything is fuzzy inside my brain container...

 

[rustygold]

Thought it would be it's not back in the old days where you had different size clutch but same input sizes

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