Engine won’t turn over, slow revolutions

[Big Bart]

For the record I suggested it’s a last resort thing and banging it a couple times and not smashing it. . It’s a last resort thing not a it starts I am good to go thing. To selahdoor’s point if you plan to rebuild don’t break it, tap it.

Yes the battery that dropped to 4v is bad. The other passes but could be marginal. I would and I suggest 2 new batteries so they work equally as hard to turn the starter. VS one doing all the heavy lifting. IE The new one charging the other battery while also trying to turn the starter. Very well could be the bad battery is the culprit not the starter. Batteries should not go below 9v when load tested.

 

[chillman88]

I would ALWAYS replace the batteries in pairs. If they're a couple months off no big deal but you don't want a 5 year old battery with a new one, lot's of people have killed BOTH the batteries when the old one finally gave out.

 

[92LongBed]

That's what I was afraid of.

Is that one positive cable melted into the battery or am I not seeing it right?

yeah it was melted into the battery that was the battery i replaced. as for the update. the turning motion is much faster now and as it should be but the damn thing won’t crank and just blows white smoke

when i installed the new glow plug relay yesterday and went to try and start the truck i came back to a little bit of smoke from the GP relay... could i have i accidentally fried it?

 

[92LongBed]

I would ALWAYS replace the batteries in pairs. If they're a couple months off no big deal but you don't want a 5 year old battery with a new one, lot's of people have killed BOTH the batteries when the old one finally gave out.

the truck is turning much faster during ignition process but will not turn over still. i mentioned this to another fella when i put in the new GP relay yesterday i went to start the truck and came back to my glow plug relay doing a bit of smoking. could i have fried it or is that normal when installing a new one?

 

[chillman88]

Be careful with your terms just because lots of people will be confused. If it's spinning that's "cranking" and "turning over". Sounds like what you're saying is it won't catch or won't fire. Not trying to be a jerk but there's a difference and people trying to help will be confused.

It does sound like you might have fried your glow plug controller. I'd start by making sure you have power to it and have someone help you check for power going from the relay to the plugs. That's the best place to start.

I'm worried about why the cable melted into the battery though, it's not good for it to be that hot. However if the battery was indeed bad that could have been part of the cause.

 

[Big Bart]

92 Longbed,

If you have worked on vehicles long enough, you have been in a pain funnel like yourself. (Multiple issues/complex fix or one fix breaks something else.) So I feel for you.

Lets recap your work -

1) Glow plugs all are tested and good.
2) New glow plug controller. - Appears to be working but smoking a little. (Smoke could be from dirt/grease that was on your hands or the cables. Just turn on and look, you should be able to see what is smoking.)
3) New battery - Starter working correctly now, vehicle turns over well.
4) Prior to starter issue, truck would take multiple attempts to start even when warm. Once running it ran without issue.

Now your truck will turn over but it will not start, but you see grey smoke. (Usually partially burned diesel.) A common issue when you have air in your fuel lines. (Pre or post fuel filter.)


Some ideas to look at.


1) I would first confirm the glow plugs are working. (Confirm do not assume.) It can be hard to start a cold truck without glow plugs heating up.

2) If the glow plugs are working then I would look at a fuel issue. I like to think of the fuel filter as the separating line. Separating fuel delivery and fuel return.

a) It's very common that the injector return line system is leaking. It causes the diesel to leave the system and go back to the tank, leaving air in its place. Then hard starting and when it does grey smoke. One common sign is you see when this the case is wetness around the injector or return lines.(Where the diesel can leak out and the air can leak in when shut off.) Or diesel collecting dust/dirt around the injector. If you have not done so in some time, I would just redo the return lines, caps, and O-rings. Your supply house should be able to order you the kit for $40-100 depending on brand. There are two different kits based on age, so make sure to get the right kit. When these leak, it often causes the engine to not start right up, rather crank and crank, and crank and then V-room. The fuel has to push the air out and reprime the system. So 2,3,4,5 times later the engine starts, idles rough or runs up the RPM, and generally blows out grey/white smoke for a brief period. You mentioned that was the issue before your starting issue came up. You likely killed a older and marginal battery by doing all that starting. (Don't feel bad, I went 2 months with my glow plug system not working before I got around to fixing it.)

b) Fuel supply issue which can be tricky but here are some causes. Clogged fuel filter. Bad lift pump. Broken fuel line. Clog in fuel tank, or too little diesel in tank. Broken tank transfer system, these often go bad and get stuck in between switch positions. So hard to say where to start here, but there are many threads on each one. Perhaps start with a new fuel filter and check the lift pump is pumping out diesel during starting. (If its pumping, then likely its post filter.)

c) IP timing can also be a issue. When your timing is off, your truck may not start as easily as it should. However hard to do the timing till it is running.

d) Make sure your cold engine IP advance is working. It uses a coolant sensor to turn on or off power, when cold it will advance the IP (So I have heard.) and then holds the idle higher till your truck warms up. You would know if this was working before because your truck would idle higher when cold. Use a test light or volt meter to see if you have power at the IP pump as your engine is cold currently.

e) Also the diesel shut off is on the top of the IP pump. Power to it and it allows fuel and thus the motor to start and run. No power, no fuel, and engine shuts off stays off. You said you have white smoke so likely this is working as diesel is getting into the engine. Again don't assume, test and confirm. It could be partially working.


So you need this truck running. You might want to loosen your injector lines at the injectors and bleed the system. Then immediately after tightening the injector lines, with the glow plugs working, try to start the truck. If it starts then you at least can move the truck till you have time to repair it. Once you shut it off and the diesel can bleed off, it will be hard to start again.


Good luck and let us know what you find.

 

[92LongBed]

Be careful with your terms just because lots of people will be confused. If it's spinning that's "cranking" and "turning over". Sounds like what you're saying is it won't catch or won't fire. Not trying to be a jerk but there's a difference and people trying to help will be confused.

It does sound like you might have fried your glow plug controller. I'd start by making sure you have power to it and have someone help you check for power going from the relay to the plugs. That's the best place to start.

I'm worried about why the cable melted into the battery though, it's not good for it to be that hot. However if the battery was indeed bad that could have been part of the cause.

My apologies on the confusion, I can see how that can make helping difficult. I appreciate you bringing it up. I will do a light test/volt test to see if it is no longer functioning correctly. I did notice that I did not wire it EXACTLY the same when installing the new one. All cables are on the right spots but I installed the

Be careful with your terms just because lots of people will be confused. If it's spinning that's "cranking" and "turning over". Sounds like what you're saying is it won't catch or won't fire. Not trying to be a jerk but there's a difference and people trying to help will be confused.

It does sound like you might have fried your glow plug controller. I'd start by making sure you have power to it and have someone help you check for power going from the relay to the plugs. That's the best place to start.

I'm worried about why the cable melted into the battery though, it's not good for it to be that hot. However if the battery was indeed bad that could have been part of the cause.

92 Longbed,

If you have worked on vehicles long enough, you have been in a pain funnel like yourself. (Multiple issues/complex fix or one fix breaks something else.) So I feel for you.

Lets recap your work -

1) Glow plugs all are tested and good.
2) New glow plug controller. - Appears to be working but smoking a little. (Smoke could be from dirt/grease that was on your hands or the cables. Just turn on and look, you should be able to see what is smoking.)
3) New battery - Starter working correctly now, vehicle turns over well.
4) Prior to starter issue, truck would take multiple attempts to start even when warm. Once running it ran without issue.

Now your truck will turn over but it will not start, but you see grey smoke. (Usually partially burned diesel.) A common issue when you have air in your fuel lines. (Pre or post fuel filter.)


Some ideas to look at.


1) I would first confirm the glow plugs are working. (Confirm do not assume.) It can be hard to start a cold truck without glow plugs heating up.

2) If the glow plugs are working then I would look at a fuel issue. I like to think of the fuel filter as the separating line. Separating fuel delivery and fuel return.

a) It's very common that the injector return line system is leaking. It causes the diesel to leave the system and go back to the tank, leaving air in its place. Then hard starting and when it does grey smoke. One common sign is you see when this the case is wetness around the injector or return lines.(Where the diesel can leak out and the air can leak in when shut off.) Or diesel collecting dust/dirt around the injector. If you have not done so in some time, I would just redo the return lines, caps, and O-rings. Your supply house should be able to order you the kit for $40-100 depending on brand. There are two different kits based on age, so make sure to get the right kit. When these leak, it often causes the engine to not start right up, rather crank and crank, and crank and then V-room. The fuel has to push the air out and reprime the system. So 2,3,4,5 times later the engine starts, idles rough or runs up the RPM, and generally blows out grey/white smoke for a brief period. You mentioned that was the issue before your starting issue came up. You likely killed a older and marginal battery by doing all that starting. (Don't feel bad, I went 2 months with my glow plug system not working before I got around to fixing it.)

b) Fuel supply issue which can be tricky but here are some causes. Clogged fuel filter. Bad lift pump. Broken fuel line. Clog in fuel tank, or too little diesel in tank. Broken tank transfer system, these often go bad and get stuck in between switch positions. So hard to say where to start here, but there are many threads on each one. Perhaps start with a new fuel filter and check the lift pump is pumping out diesel during starting. (If its pumping, then likely its post filter.)

c) IP timing can also be a issue. When your timing is off, your truck may not start as easily as it should. However hard to do the timing till it is running.

d) Make sure your cold engine IP advance is working. It uses a coolant sensor to turn on or off power, when cold it will advance the IP (So I have heard.) and then holds the idle higher till your truck warms up. You would know if this was working before because your truck would idle higher when cold. Use a test light or volt meter to see if you have power at the IP pump as your engine is cold currently.

e) Also the diesel shut off is on the top of the IP pump. Power to it and it allows fuel and thus the motor to start and run. No power, no fuel, and engine shuts off stays off. You said you have white smoke so likely this is working as diesel is getting into the engine. Again don't assume, test and confirm. It could be partially working.


So you need this truck running. You might want to loosen your injector lines at the injectors and bleed the system. Then immediately after tightening the injector lines, with the glow plugs working, try to start the truck. If it starts then you at least can move the truck till you have time to repair it. Once you shut it off and the diesel can bleed off, it will be hard to start again.


Good luck and let us know what you find.

92 Longbed,

If you have worked on vehicles long enough, you have been in a pain funnel like yourself. (Multiple issues/complex fix or one fix breaks something else.) So I feel for you.

Lets recap your work -

1) Glow plugs all are tested and good.
2) New glow plug controller. - Appears to be working but smoking a little. (Smoke could be from dirt/grease that was on your hands or the cables. Just turn on and look, you should be able to see what is smoking.)
3) New battery - Starter working correctly now, vehicle turns over well.
4) Prior to starter issue, truck would take multiple attempts to start even when warm. Once running it ran without issue.

Now your truck will turn over but it will not start, but you see grey smoke. (Usually partially burned diesel.) A common issue when you have air in your fuel lines. (Pre or post fuel filter.)


Some ideas to look at.


1) I would first confirm the glow plugs are working. (Confirm do not assume.) It can be hard to start a cold truck without glow plugs heating up.

2) If the glow plugs are working then I would look at a fuel issue. I like to think of the fuel filter as the separating line. Separating fuel delivery and fuel return.

a) It's very common that the injector return line system is leaking. It causes the diesel to leave the system and go back to the tank, leaving air in its place. Then hard starting and when it does grey smoke. One common sign is you see when this the case is wetness around the injector or return lines.(Where the diesel can leak out and the air can leak in when shut off.) Or diesel collecting dust/dirt around the injector. If you have not done so in some time, I would just redo the return lines, caps, and O-rings. Your supply house should be able to order you the kit for $40-100 depending on brand. There are two different kits based on age, so make sure to get the right kit. When these leak, it often causes the engine to not start right up, rather crank and crank, and crank and then V-room. The fuel has to push the air out and reprime the system. So 2,3,4,5 times later the engine starts, idles rough or runs up the RPM, and generally blows out grey/white smoke for a brief period. You mentioned that was the issue before your starting issue came up. You likely killed a older and marginal battery by doing all that starting. (Don't feel bad, I went 2 months with my glow plug system not working before I got around to fixing it.)

b) Fuel supply issue which can be tricky but here are some causes. Clogged fuel filter. Bad lift pump. Broken fuel line. Clog in fuel tank, or too little diesel in tank. Broken tank transfer system, these often go bad and get stuck in between switch positions. So hard to say where to start here, but there are many threads on each one. Perhaps start with a new fuel filter and check the lift pump is pumping out diesel during starting. (If its pumping, then likely its post filter.)

c) IP timing can also be a issue. When your timing is off, your truck may not start as easily as it should. However hard to do the timing till it is running.

d) Make sure your cold engine IP advance is working. It uses a coolant sensor to turn on or off power, when cold it will advance the IP (So I have heard.) and then holds the idle higher till your truck warms up. You would know if this was working before because your truck would idle higher when cold. Use a test light or volt meter to see if you have power at the IP pump as your engine is cold currently.

e) Also the diesel shut off is on the top of the IP pump. Power to it and it allows fuel and thus the motor to start and run. No power, no fuel, and engine shuts off stays off. You said you have white smoke so likely this is working as diesel is getting into the engine. Again don't assume, test and confirm. It could be partially working.


So you need this truck running. You might want to loosen your injector lines at the injectors and bleed the system. Then immediately after tightening the injector lines, with the glow plugs working, try to start the truck. If it starts then you at least can move the truck till you have time to repair it. Once you shut it off and the diesel can bleed off, it will be hard to start again.


Good luck and let us know what you find.

hey i really appreciate you laying this all out for me and i’m going to run through this checklist just for peace of mind but i went out and made sure the GP relay was receiving power with ignition “ON” and it was so i gave it another shot at firing up and after a few seconds of ripping the gas pedal it fired up and just blasted a huge cloud of black and white smoke. left it running for about 5 mins and it starts up immediately every time on both fuel tanks

So i believe it was just the batteries!

 

[Big Bart]

Glad to hear you got the beast to roar again!

Once it sits for 24-48 hours if it starts each time you are good to go.

However if you find after sitting it takes 2-5 times to start going forward then you likely have a air leak and air in your fuel lines. Thus why it starts after a lot of cranking. A lot of cranking will cause pre-mature starter failure, battery failure, and even pre-mature altenator/regulator failure.

I would also check your IP timing. It can make a big differnce on your ability to start. Reduce from 5-10 seconds of cranking down to 2-4 seconds.

All the best!

 

[Cubey]

Banging on the starter... The reason 50% of the time, the starter stops working completely after you have done this a time or 6, is because the magnets break from all that banging, and stick to the rotor.

Don't bang on your starter to get it to start. Or if you do, drive it straight to the parts store and buy another starter

Had to do that for my mom's car once. She called me up saying it wouldn't start. I drove across town to her, and banging on it with a wrench got it to start. She went and got a new starter right away since it was obviously going bad if it does that.

 

[Diesel D]

That's what I was afraid of.

Is that one positive cable melted into the battery or am I not seeing it right?

...looks like it may just be a wear mark...also, +1 on the battery stress test.....a 12v reading from a multi-meter really doesn't say much...it must be under load....I replace my batteries every two years.....I consider it cheap insurance...