a little educational video

[riotwarrior]

Very true. Sad to say but now days 90% of builders/performance shops either don't know or wont go through the trouble to do correct machine work.
Bill sounds like he had a clear edge over most of todays builders. What did he run?

Bill had a 55 chev (cough) with a Big block 427 and single 4barrel carb...efffffn fast crazy it would lift the front wheels on a good launch and he had to put a couple windshields in cause it twisted hard enough to crack it. We got it settled and he stopped buying glass

All our idi blocks have the head bolt threads counter bored 1 inch into the block so.... Whats that telling you. Look closely at the 5.9 block.. Looks to me like only the top thread is removed... I think we do a better job of spreading out the stress over a wider area of the bore and at a lower area too. I sure would like to watch how a NASCAR engine is machined and assembled. Oh to be a fly on the wall in that operating room... There is no reason for main bearing studs in our idi engines. Our bottom end is bullet proof. The caps don't fret or walk. The rpm is generally kept around 3000 to 3500 rpm. Sure, its a lot of mass spinning but its built to handle that all day long too. I really don't know how to improve on what the designers have done. Maybe lightening the crank or knife edgeing it but what that may or may not gain us is a wonder at this side of the screen....

Gary,

Be it our engines or anyone's, gasser or diesel Studs are always a great idea, though I cannot speak to our bottom ends having not seen one. I suspect your correct in as much as we only spin 3 maybe 4 K tops for some of the more aggressive young ones with the throttle!

I don't think a knife edge on the crank would be all that relative due again to RPM but I have wondered about a crank scraper or windage tray

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One advantage to studding is the ability to add a nice lil windage tray like the one above.
Second advantage...Main cap Girdle for well obscene over the top waaay out there hi performance IDI that would make for like stupid HP/TQ

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Just sayin....ifn one has the dollars to play there is room to grow and grow correctly so not to or at least lessen chances of catastrophic failure! Proven techniques and tricks area transferable product from one build to another.

I know from my old Cortina days, that head work pays off HUGE, the difference was amazing to the point of disbelieving what I saw.

Imagine an IDI Turbo on roids with huge boost...oh wait...been done hypermax and with a girdle!

 

[Diesel JD]

So we're saying that studding an engine is going to cause this kind of distortion? What should be done to prevent that? There are an awful lot of studded engines that have run for years on this forum without incident and even NMB2s builds which were overtorqued and pushed a lot harder than most of us would push an IDI haven't blown up. I know that doesn't mean it's ideal or right..but it has been done. As far redneck rebuilds like you described, I have no idea, you've forgotten more than I know about building engines so I'll assume you're right. If I were to take the trouble to build an engine I'd want to at least have it bored by somebody who knew what they were doing. A build is a lot of work to waste to save a few bucks on machine work.

 

[IDIeselman]

So we're saying that studding an engine is going to cause this kind of distortion? What should be done to prevent that? There are an awful lot of studded engines that have run for years on this forum without incident and even NMB2s builds which were overtorqued and pushed a lot harder than most of us would push an IDI haven't blown up. I know that doesn't mean it's ideal or right..but it has been done. As far redneck rebuilds like you described, I have no idea, you've forgotten more than I know about building engines so I'll assume you're right. If I were to take the trouble to build an engine I'd want to at least have it bored by somebody who knew what they were doing. A build is a lot of work to waste to save a few bucks on machine work.

Yes and no, Replacing bolts with studs will cause minor distortion but, not close to enough to worry about unless it's a max effort all out racing high RPM application, The vid shown what most people never see but fails to say most machine shops do not go through the trouble to do it correctly. I believe it's safe to say 80% of dedicated strip engines running at a given track have not been built with as much care.

 

[DeepRoots]

Like the title of the thread says, "a little educational video"
Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

 

[riotwarrior]

As I stated, the distortion is there and torque plates need to be installed when an engine is bored oversize. If you don't your ok millions and millions of engines run fine without them. It's all a matter of

How fast do u wanna go
How great do you want your engine to run

How much are you willing to spend.

The video shows what can happen....how things work and whats required to get closer to perfection.

As Deeproots said draw your own conclusion....

 

[icanfixall]

So why do we look at the viedo of a snap gage falling thru a 5.9 block and feel that same thing will happen to our blocks. We are talking about two differant blocks... Like apples and oranges. Was the person in the viedo "selling something"... I'm just not so sure a persons hands can compress a cast iron block like that... Unles there is something wrong with the block like maybe a crack that we don't get to see. A torque plate is a must have if you want a true bore in a cylinder. Thats a given. Like I posted early on our head bolt threads are down 1 inch in the block so they pull down deeper and spread out the stress better than that 5.9 does with its threads at the top deck like it is. If someone has a block opened up maybe they could use a snap gage and see if there hands are strong enough to do the same thing. Seeing this has me asking questions just like any one else does. I'm not doughting.. Just questioning.. Educational yes...

 

[riotwarrior]

Could it be a small string attached to bottom of gauge someone pulls down when he presses sides of block.....who knows...or is he that freakin strong? Who knows?

 

[Diesel JD]

Could it be a small string attached to bottom of gauge someone pulls down when he presses sides of block.....who knows...or is he that freakin strong? Who knows?

He could be that strong if he's like DslBroncoTom!

 

[bike-maker]

As a guy that used to bore / hone lots of blocks in conjunction with the previously mentioned BHJ deck plates, I can attest to the cylinders walls being wonky once the heads are torqued down. And it happens virtually the same amount using either stock bolts or studs; there's hardly any difference in the amount of tension pulling the threads up out of the block. So this applies to EVERY block, studs or not.
In a high dollar race engine where every bit of power is needed, it's definitely worth the money; just not sure if would make any noticeable difference in a engine that's only going to make 200 hp.

 

[Diesel JD]

How much do you think a torque plate would add to machining costs and how much do you think it would increase the chances that a novice engine builder would ****up the assembly by having something extra in the engine assembly to account for. I wonder if something like that would be necessary for a build like the NMB2 build. I believe he used a girdle on his block. Still even a 400 HP engine is a long way from an all out racing engine that might put down 1000+ HP. I do understand that the physics of this are not up for debate just the practical need for this in an IDI build...even a HO one.

 

[towcat]

As I stated, the distortion is there and torque plates need to be installed when an engine is bored oversize. If you don't your ok millions and millions of engines run fine without them. It's all a matter of

How fast do u wanna go
How great do you want your engine to run

How much are you willing to spend.

The video shows what can happen....how things work and whats required to get closer to perfection.

As Deeproots said draw your own conclusion....

i used to own and race Buick big block motors. There was little performance products, so you needed every advantage you could find. I'm the reason why BHJ has torque plates for all varieties of Buick power
certain motors have a more stable deck than other motors, but then again there's a good reason why a MLS gasket responds better to certain makes.