API alert!

My co-worker who builds engines recently asked me to comment on the removal of zinc and phosphate from diesel oil. My response was "Huh?" As a builder of race engines, he is keenly aware of oil properties and what causes wear and what doesn't. He told me that API specification CJ4/SM for diesels is going to cause more wear than CI4/SM. The Motorcraft oil I use, as well as the tried and trusted Rotella-T has moved to CJ4. This is because of the catalytic converters in all the newer trucks. Our older rigs need their zinc and phosphates! He turned me on to this stuff which I was pleased to read is locally grown for us Quakers. It's being marketed BECAUSE it is CI4, as a specialty oil. I'm afraid it may be time for me to abandon the Motorcraft Oil I have been using for a quarter century.

So where do u get the stuff? The only other oil i have found that is not CJ4 was some bottles of Valvoline, it was SAE 30 wt and was CI4 spec.

Amsoil AMO 10w-40 and ARO 20w-50 are formulated with the zinc for pre 2007 highway diesel engines and has been relabeled to show . They did that on a couple of their oldest products.

Personally, once you've made the jump to a quality synthetic, I think worrying about zinc is pretty silly, but , it's marketing. Once the public gets the zinc catch word in their head, they won't be able to sell anything to owners of older vehicles no matter what they tell them unless they put a ton of zinc in it, or in this case, leave it that same way it's been for the last 20 some odd years.

One place I found is PPC Lubricants 800-772-5823 Synthetics have their own issues, as many have found (leaks).

I've been turned on to this product after seeing consistent tappet and cam failures in the last five years in older gasser big block products.
so far....no problems with motors broken in with this product.
http://www.joegibbsdriven.com/products/enginebuilder.html

Tis prolly a good thing that I've got a 55 gallon barrel of Rotella still in the shop.
I was wondering when that was going to happen since the 6.0 problems Ford changed to CI+4.

I can fix your problems in 1 word AMSOIL that is all I have ever used.

RKOCH said:

I can fix your problems in 1 word AMSOIL that is all I have ever used.

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What is the zinc content in Amsoil? That is the core issue here.

Agnem said:

My co-worker who builds engines recently asked me to comment on the removal of zinc and phosphate from diesel oil. My response was "Huh?" As a builder of race engines, he is keenly aware of oil properties and what causes wear and what doesn't. He told me that API specification CJ4/SM for diesels is going to cause more wear than CI4/SM. The Motorcraft oil I use, as well as the tried and trusted Rotella-T has moved to CJ4. This is because of the catalytic converters in all the newer trucks. Our older rigs need their zinc and phosphates! He turned me on to this stuff which I was pleased to read is locally grown for us Quakers. It's being marketed BECAUSE it is CI4, as a specialty oil. I'm afraid it may be time for me to abandon the Motorcraft Oil I have been using for a quarter century.

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how about Dello400? i've never heard of this , so they're all going to conform to the brand new diesels and nothing else? i hate the way today's manufactures ignore previous designs as soon as a "NEW AND IMPROVED" product comes out. i'd bet a large percentage of the guys driving the 6.slows and 6.4's dont even know how a diesel works they just know that is's the trendy thing to do.which i believe is a large part of the reason diesel is so expensive
ok i am done complaining now

Well this is going to be a HOT topic, time to investigate that Amsoil and see what the Zinc content is or is not.

I suspect that the potential for Micro refinery type outfits like Microbrewery could be a new thing....small batches of specialty lubes and possible bio/wvo/wmo blend of fuels etc.

Time to start really re-thinking fuel and lube needs and perhaps begin to purchase LUBE in drums, even if that means splitting costs between a couple of friends etc.

May be an idea to really look into extreme filtering technology to re-use our lube as well or blend it into fuel.

riotwarrior said:

Well this is going to be a HOT topic, time to investigate that Amsoil and see what the Zinc content is or is not.

.

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On the AMO and ARO oils they simply left the formula alone.These are two of their original oils. so it's the same as it's always been as far as zinc content, so it is not suitable for on highway vehicles made after 2007. Any oils that meet the new specs had to be changed and they had to REDUCE the zinc because it jams up the new emissions systems.

As far as zinc being the biggest factor in protection, if you're running a petrolium oil, yes, i'd worry, but if running a high end synthetic like Amsoil, I wouldn't be too worried running one of their newer higher end synthetics. They've learned quite a few things over the years to make slick since zinc. Zinc is pretty much the horse and buggy tech of the lubricant industry, which is why they figured they could axe it out on the newer vehicles with a few design changes.

Got to remember this kind of thing hasn't been a concern in Europe for a while as most cars there come from the factory with synthetic in them. and very few people don't run the stuff and haven't for years.

Is there any concerns to switching to a synthetic engine oil after running reg oil, like leaks?

Jim

Jim this is what I have seen in every engine I have switched over to syn oils. Yes they leak but it's not really a leak it's a seepage for a month or so then it stops. It did this with both diesel and gas engines that I have owned you can't really see the leaks but you can smell them when you shut the engine down again it goes away after a couple of months of the switch. Then when you go back to dino oil you can smell it again for a couple of weeks. I switched the goat over to amsoil then one day when I was changing the oil I realized that when the oil was in the drain pan that I didn't have enough on hand to refill.... ooppss... so I put in rotella and sure enough I could smell the oil for while but it went away - then when I switched back I got the seepage again... but this time it didn't take a couple of months it only took a couple of weeks.


Now I remember reading somewhere that zinc isn't really all that important while the engine is running it only comes into play when the engine is started before the oil gets to all the places it's supposed to be. so your wear shouldn't be much....

BRAD PENN...I recall hearing a few years back that they made the oil for Kendall, hence the "green oil".
I grew up on Kendall oil, it's all I ever used in my Shovelhead Harley. It was known for having a higher level of Zinc and was preferred by all the engine builders. Then several years ago Kendall was sold and the bottle got a new label and the "green" oil became a standard color almost yellow...I remember because as soon as I poured it I called Kendall asking "what did you do to my oil"! The rep tried to tell me some BS that the green was just a dye and they had to remove it because it cost too much to clean out the transport tankers when they carried another non-green product. He also said the good stuff's still in the oil...I switched brands to Valvoline VR1 Racing that has the zinc levels.
I believe the only Kendall that's still "green" is their Nitro 70 blend.

*I'll never use synthetic in my diesel and if I feel the need to "mail order" oil for this old diesel coupled with the high price of fuel it just makes it that much more undesirable.

Maybe Lucas will gain popularity because it clings to the moving parts between engine shutdown and startup??? I usually use it anyhow in summer months.

Well I definitely need zinc then for my fleet, cause my engines can sit for months between restarts.