ZF5 VS ZF6

Classicfordguy

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Posts
379
Reaction score
0
Location
Orlando, Florida
Hey guys, doing a bit of research for a future 12 valve cummins swap. I have a ZF5 42 in my truck now, I've read it is comparable to the NV4500 so my thought was to run the ZF5 till it breaks then maybe go with a ZF6 as I have read it is a good trans for this application.

So a few questions, are the bell housings the same between the two? Another words if I buy the $800 adapter plate will it work for both the ZF5 and the ZF6?

What are the other differences, is the 6 stronger, any bigger, different ratios?

Thanks'

-Rob
 

Dsl_Dog_Treat

I lost my face to the jaws of a poodle
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Posts
7,191
Reaction score
160
Location
Decatur,MI
Rob, the bellhousing bolt patterns are 2 different animals. The transmissions are as well too. The ZF-6 also has an external oil cooling system that would have to be plumbed in with a cooler.

IIRC the final gear ratios are close to the same. Just one more in between gear.

Depending on what you plan to do, the ZF5 is a pretty good trans.
 

tractorman86

Registered User
Joined
May 1, 2006
Posts
2,393
Reaction score
0
Location
Buckeye, AZ
personally rob, if you can afford it, i'd go and do the zf-6. i have the 5 and like it but i have been around a few zf-6s and they shift smoother, last longer and you have an added lower gear. i think the reason they last so much better is because of the cooling system which might be a pain to set up in the begining but i think it would be all worth it.
 

Classicfordguy

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Posts
379
Reaction score
0
Location
Orlando, Florida
Ok, good info, so different adapters are needed for the 5 and 6.

Any idea how long a zf5 42 will last behind 500 hp and 1000+ft lbs from a cummins?

What vehicles did the zf6 come in, where might I look for one and what should I expect to pay?

Thanks again,

-Rob
 

Exekiel69

Registered User
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Posts
5,391
Reaction score
8
Location
Maryland
The zf will last the same as most trannys it depends if You drive it like a truck or a kid. I would not even consider the zf6 over a zf5. Also I have the getrag and I had a zf5 before, I believe the final gear ratio is lower on the getrag and it might be the same with the nv4500 so You might want to keep that in mind.
 

Exekiel69

Registered User
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Posts
5,391
Reaction score
8
Location
Maryland
and it provably is, more gears is good but I meant behind a cummins both these tranny's rev the engine higher than a getrag or a nv4500. I don't have #'s to sustain what I'm saying right now but I do know they are lower than the getrag. I have a 3200 spring on My mine and it will rev up much higher than stock but with the getrag I can get the speeds just right for the cummins where the zf didn't feel the same even with the IDI. The only thing I miss from the zf (a lot some times) is that it will shift like butter (or most cars), when the getrag needs a little more work and timing.
 

averagef250

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Posts
189
Reaction score
2
Location
Portland, OR
Having done a dozen+ Cummins swaps, several with Ford ZF S6-650's, rebuilt dozens of zf 5 and 6 speeds, built several custom ZF 6 speeds and pieced back together 50+ scattered NV4500's I cannot disagree more with what has been said in this thread.

First off, the gutbag and NV4500 are entirely different animals than the Ford diesel transmissions or the NV5600/G56. The NV4500 and gutbag are wide ratio granny transmissions. They have horrible ratios and shouldn't have ever been considered for use behind a turbodiesel in a truck that works.

The ZF S5-42 and S5-47 diesel versions are close ratio transmissions with ideal ratios for diesel applications that work. Yes, you have one more gear to go through so if you have a light vehicle and want to go fast, say a 12 valve in a flatfender jeep, you may be happy with an NV4500 because the power to weight is so rediculous the engine does not need to be in it's sweet spot to put a smile on your face.

If, on the other hand, you actual use your truck you'll find the close ratios are very nice for not only pulling things and having power whenever you need it, but you can get better economy from the engine because there's less need to wind it out to keep the engine where it likes to be (1600-1800 for Cummins mechanical engines).

The ZF S5-42 has the exact same size shafts, gears and slightly larger bearings than the NV4500 HD dodge diesel version. The light duty gas NV4500 has smaller shafts. The ZF S6-650 6 speed makes both of those look like childs playthings in comparison.

There are two versions of the Ford ZF 6 speed, the 7.3 and 6.0 diesel have different bell patterns. The 7.3 6 speed shares the same pattern as the 7.3 diesel 5 speed, but the depth is not the same hence the reason why Scott had to make two different Cummins plates for the 7.3 diesel pattern. One for the ZF 5 speed and E4OD/4R100 and one for the ZF 6 speed. The difference is the adapter is 1.125" thick for the 5 speed and .5" thick for the 6 speed. You also run different flywheels and clutches for the two and the starter depth changes dpendant on which flywheel you run.

Lastly, the 5 and 6 speed have the nearly the same ratios. The benefit to the 6 speed is it has GRANNY GEAR and a lower reverse ratio, not an extra gear between first and 5th, those are still the same. The Ford 6 speed also has the beautifully well thought out oil pump, cooler and pressure pocket bearing lubrication that no other light duty pickup tranny has. NOTE: The GM ZF6 version did not have this lube hence part of the reason why most GM 6 speeds fail early and GM no longer offers the manual option behind the duramax (because they were too cheap).

The downside to the 6 speed is it weighs a considerable amount, it has a different shift pattern than 5 speeds, it will not fit in anything older than 1998 without cab floor modification and it has a large 24 spline output shaft in 4x4 versions which makes using an older t-case like a 205 more difficult. Not impossible though, if you need a ZF6/NP205 combo PM me.
 

tractorman86

Registered User
Joined
May 1, 2006
Posts
2,393
Reaction score
0
Location
Buckeye, AZ
nice write up dustin! i am going to put a zf-6 with an np205 on my 91 f250 but i will be using a 2wd trans and a div. t-case.:D
 

averagef250

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Posts
189
Reaction score
2
Location
Portland, OR
The tranny hump needs to be extended to the rear a few inches on 80-97 trucks. The upper rear portion of the ZF6 is taller than most transmissions.

In a 79 or older Ford the cab floor has a crossmember that the transfercase will fight for the same space. You can fit any 5 speed with a NP205 without hitting the crossmember, but you can't fit a 5 speed and a modern chain driven case or a 6 speed and 205 without a 1" bodylift or modifying that crossmember.
 
Top