Worried about my 7.3 IDIT's health

[jrollf]

For the last 10 years or so my truck hasn't been worked too hard. Last year we bought an about 8,000 lb Travel Trailer, and the truck is once again being used as a truck.

We did a fairly long vacation trip, which accounted for about 2,500 miles of 3,100 miles on my last oil change, all pulling the Trailer. With about 1,500 miles of it out west in the Arizona, Nevada, Utah region pulling many hard grades, 3rd gear was common, with occasionally down to 2nd. The engine and truck have 226,000 miles on it.

I regularly get my oil tested at Blackstone, following trends of wear materials usually helps understanding the health of the engine. Many years ago it lead me to realize I was getting trace amounts of coolant in my oil, before you could even see it. (Oil cooler rebuild fixed that).

Flash forward to this last oil change and my latest Oil Analysis from Blackstone. It has me really worried, Iron, Chromium, and Aluminum are all WAY up, and all time high. Potentially indicating a cylinder issue. Iron over 300% increase, and my oil came back a bit high on the viscous side, possibly due to increased soot from blow by. I was expected some increase in wear metals due to the hard towing... but nothing like this.

I have for years, sworn that I could hear a slight knock in the engine bottom end, especially at idle. Diesel mechs around me always look at me funny and say it sounds fine or best sounding IDI they have heard in years. But with the drastic increase in wear metals.. now I'm really doubting the health of my engine. I've tried the "bleed one injector at a time" to see if the slight knock I think I'm hearing changes, but it doesn't seem too. The knock seems loudest if I stick my head under the driver's side of the truck around where the bell housing meets the engine, not surprisingly it's loudest when cold. Oil pressure is a healthy 40ish running hot down the highway.

I'm planning another longs vacation dragging the Travel Trailer for three weeks this November, likely to be in the 3,000 mile range again. Now I'm not too sure about the trip. I don't put a lot of miles on this truck, likely it won't be due for an oil change before my trip in November (even an early one at 2,000 miles as suggested by Blackstone), so no real chance to get more trending on it before vacation.

Thoughts... am I worrying too much? Stay home pull the engine and send it off to Wes for a rebuild @Thewespaul, maybe I need to drive over from Houston and have you take a look at it!

My first step will be a compression test... unfortunately I'm not setup to do a compression bleed down test which would tell me a lot more. I did a compression test a couple years ago and they all were within range of each other / healthy.

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[Big Bart]

JRollf,

Collectively folks will all chime in and give you a concensous. But some additional info would help.

1) Do you have any aftermarket gauges like a boost and EGT. If you have what appears to you to be some cylinder wear perhaps your EGT's got up there pulling some grades while towing. That could cause some extra piston wear.
2) Does the truck run well and idle well?
3) Did you change oil type, viscosity, or add another brand of oil to existing oil on your trip?
4) What oil do you use?
5) What is your diff gearing?
6) Did you run any new additives to your diesel on the trip. (Lube, anti gel, etc.)

Personally if the truck was still running good I would just take it. Watch my temps more closely (Add gauges if I did not have them.) and make sure I am not pushing the engine too far. If you are concerned do what they recommend and re-test at 2,000mi. They did not say your oil is off the charts, rather abnormal for your past. Well towing 8,000lbs and up big grades is not your trucks historical norm.

Other folks who test can share more about what they get back when towing. If you did a little wear and tear she will keep pulling hard for you. If you did some big wear and tear you would already notice something new. Rough idle, something knocking, lack of power, more smoking, etc.

Keep in mind IDI's don't like to pull at low RPM. Try to keep it above 2,000 RPM, members have claimed they wore out the bottom end prematurely pulling at low RPM's. (Just a IDI thing.) No diesel likes high EGT's, it can melt an aluminum piston. I will let others with Turbo's suggest what their top EGT threshold is.

My vote is go on vacation and enjoy your new toy, don't spend your summer chasing a engine rebuild. That is what winter is for!

 

[jrollf]

1) Do you have any aftermarket gauges like a boost and EGT. If you have what appears to you to be some cylinder wear perhaps your EGT's got up there pulling some grades while towing. That could cause some extra piston wear.

Boost and EGT. It's a factory IDIT upgraded with a Banks Sidewinder. Boost runs up to 10psi then the waistgate kicks in. EGTs hit 1,000 for a couple short periods of time. I generally keep it conserative/below 1,000.

2) Does the truck run well and idle well?
Yes to both.

3) Did you change oil type, viscosity, or add another brand of oil to existing oil on your trip?
No change, I always carry extra just in case.

4) What oil do you use?
Delo SDE 15w-40

5) What is your diff gearing?
4.10

6) Did you run any new additives to your diesel on the trip. (Lube, anti gel, etc.)

I run Opti-Lube XL in the fuel, but not new. I've used it for years.

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[franklin2]

I would look and wait for any other signs before pulling the engine. I would not base a engine rebuild on a oil test. Like was said, the oil test raised your awareness. You should see other signs or hear louder noises before you need to worry.

 

[jrollf]

I would look and wait for any other signs before pulling the engine. I would not base a engine rebuild on a oil test. Like was said, the oil test raised your awareness. You should see other signs or hear louder noises before you need to worry.

Agree, not going to knee jerk and pull the engine. My comment of having Wes rebuild it was meant to be sarcastic. Although if I ended up going down that path I would searoisly consider having Wes do it.

Next step is a compression test. Traveling for work at the moment so it has to wait... which kills me having to wait. My wife will tell you my truck is the 'other women in my life' [emoji16]

This oil test really got my attention, I've seen wear metals spike after towing, but never anything this extrem.

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[jrollf]

I have a cheap bore-scope... is it possible to feed one through the injector hole and pre-cup in any way that it is worth while to see the top of the piston? My hunch is my cheap bore-scope won't be small and flexible enough to work it down through the small area.

 

[Oledirtypearl86]

I have a cheap bore-scope... is it possible to feed one through the injector hole and pre-cup in any way that it is worth while to see the top of the piston? My hunch is my cheap bore-scope won't be small and flexible enough to work it down through the small area.

Yeah my snap on wont fit let alone make it through the pre cup in all honesty I wouldn't worry to much gove it a fresh early oil change before you go and and run it. As long as it isn't burning to much oil or knocking you should be good

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Before you condemn the engine, how's the health of your turbo? If there's a lot of play in the bearings, I can see where you might get some extra aluminum in your oil. Quite possibly the iron and chromium too. I don't know how much of a possibility that is, but I'm trying to throw out other possibilities as well.

 

[Big Bart]

1) Do you have any aftermarket gauges like a boost and EGT. If you have what appears to you to be some cylinder wear perhaps your EGT's got up there pulling some grades while towing. That could cause some extra piston wear.

Boost and EGT. It's a factory IDIT upgraded with a Banks Sidewinder. Boost runs up to 10psi then the waistgate kicks in. EGTs hit 1,000 for a couple short periods of time. I generally keep it conserative/below 1,000.

2) Does the truck run well and idle well?
Yes to both.

3) Did you change oil type, viscosity, or add another brand of oil to existing oil on your trip?
No change, I always carry extra just in case.

4) What oil do you use?
Delo SDE 15w-40

5) What is your diff gearing?
4.10

6) Did you run any new additives to your diesel on the trip. (Lube, anti gel, etc.)

I run Opti-Lube XL in the fuel, but not new. I've used it for years.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Since you have no signs of performance issues I doubt you hurt anything.

Let us know how your compression test turns out. Try to be consistent, I usually go 5 compression strokes for each cyl. Leaving a battery charger on when doing so helps. Ford’s guidance is no two cylinders more then 20% different.

Could have been the couple times you got up to 1000 on EGT’s added a little to the oil stats. Maybe some carbon or soot that was tainted came off the pistons or rings under pressure. Then some washed into your oil. But many members run up to and some a little past 1,000 egt.

To your point you did not change or blend oils and used the same additives. So I feel you just saw a little wear and tear or cleared some soot. Delo is good oil I run it in my older diesels.

It will be interesting if it goes up or down on next test.

 

[jrollf]

Finally had a cool weekend that I wasn't sucked into something else so I did a "physical" on my engine.

Compression test. Drove the truck until the engine was at normal running temperature... but by the time I got all the crud out of the way and all the glow plugs out (only so fast my back will let me work) the engine was warm, but definitely not full operating temperature.

Highest compression was 500 psi on cylinders 2, 5, and 7. Lowest was 400 on cylinders 3 and 8. That puts it right at the max 20% difference Ford recommends (100 is 20% of 500, 400 is 100 less than 500).

Cylinders / psi:
Driver's Side:
2 = 500 psi
4 = 480 psi
6 = 480 psi
8 = 400 psi

Passenger Side:
1 = 420 psi
3 = 400 psi
5 = 500 psi
7 = 500 psi

Glow plugs looked good to me right out of the truck before cleaning:

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After wiping off the tips with a rag:

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A previous poster mentioned to check end play on the turbo. I unfortunately don't have the right attachment for my dial caliper so I can't measure it. It does seem excessive to me, however the turbine is not rubbing on the side of the housing. Below is a link to a short video I took, you can see the end play best from the 20 to 45 second mark.

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Finally, the vague one is "do I hear any knocks". To be fair, I've thought I heard a faint knock for years on this engine, but my hearing is crappy, and I've had at least 2 diesel mechanics claim it is one of the best sounding IDI's they heard in a long time. When the engine is still cool/warming up, under light load I can hear a faint tap that sounds kind of like a ball-peen hammer tapping on the engine block. I can only hear it form the driver's seat when the A/C fan is on low or off, it is easily drowned out by other noises.

From under the truck I've always thought I could hear a hollow knock at idle as well, sometimes I think I can hear it in the cab from the driver's seat, but that may be just my paranoia. It has sounded the same for YEARS and not gotten any loader. Maybe someone that has worked on the IDI more than me can tell by listening to the recordings I made.

For the first recording, wait about 5 seconds, had to jump in the truck and disengage the clutch so no gear rollover noise from the SMF affected the recording.
Recording at idle, under truck, driver's side on the ground, inline with the bell housing.

Finally, here is a recording from under the hood, driver's side, just in front of the brake master cylinder. I "think" I can hear that same hollow knock, but real faintly.
Sound Recording from under the hood, driver's side.

So, other than "maybe" hearing a knock, everything seems healthy. I've put about 1,400 miles on it since the oil test. I'm planning on sending a sample off early for testing to see what it is looking like half way through my oil change.

If anyone can hear the "knock" I think I hear in the sound recording, please let me know what you think it is.

 

[ocnorb]

Sounds exactly like my ‘94 factory turbo… I’ve always had the little knock sound too. It drives me crazy sometimes as it’s just enough to cause concern, but never loud enough to find.

I’ve often wondered if it was some combination of frequencies combining to sound worse than it really is… but I don’t really know.

I’m no expert, but I’d be looking into a turbo rebuild. My truck has 155k miles on it and I’m going to upgrade early next year. Mine is the factory 093 and it has almost the same play as yours does.

 

[jrollf]

Sounds exactly like my ‘94 factory turbo… I’ve always had the little knock sound too. It drives me crazy sometimes as it’s just enough to cause concern, but never loud enough to find.

I’ve often wondered if it was some combination of frequencies combining to sound worse than it really is… but I don’t really know.

I’m no expert, but I’d be looking into a turbo rebuild. My truck has 155k miles on it and I’m going to upgrade early next year. Mine is the factory 093 and it has almost the same play as yours does.

Agree on the Turbo. I dropped over to Russ Repair's website and dropped a note to look into getting it done. I have a little north of 240k miles on the engine, bought the truck with about 160k miles on it. I have no idea when the Banks Turbo was put on it so not sure how many miles are on it. I'm hoping Russ might have one sitting on the shelf so we can "exchange" and minimize down time.

Makes me fell a little better that you hear that same "knock". Mine is a factory turbo motor too, however the previous owner put the Banks Sidewinder on it in place of the factory turbo. I feel the same about "diving me crazy... but never loud enough to find."

 

[frankenwrench]

My n a sounds the same. Has been for 7 years. Even after the 093 turbo install 4 or 5 years ago and even now with my Classic Diesel Design 3582 upgraded turbo and stage 1 injectors and 110 cc ip and intercooler. With each upgrade(only afford so much at a time) it seems fainter, but still there. It was alot louder than yours when i was still running stock everything.

 

[aggiediesel01]

I think going for a rebuild right before going on a trip is a recipe for bad stuff to happen. It sounds like all the other IDIs I'm familiar with, I too have heard those faint ticks and hollow knocks and I think they all have them in some form or fashion. I think you're on the right track, get the levels checked before the trip and if they improve or show little change then take it and enjoy the trip. Then when you get back start planning for a rebuild. I say this because with two cylinders at the borderline, they may last a while but they aren't likely to get any better. Who knows what the exact issue right now is but if you start gathering parts and planning now you'll be able to minimize down time and do it when it's convenient for you, not when it decides it wants to be done. As good as the other cylinders are you might be able to get away with a re-ring of those two cylinders and maybe do lower bearings and valve guides and be done since you're catching it early. There's lots of these trucks, especially the turbo blocks, that come apart at high miles and only need a light hone and new rings and are good to go again. Wes thinks this is because of the keystone ring design the turbo blocks use, but even if you have to sleeve those two cylinders that's only about $100/hole around this area. If you decide to do this in the future, I'll be happy to share the machine shops in the area we have used and would recommend.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Honestly I wouldn't be thinking about tearing the engine apart at all if it was mine. True that those are right at the 20% difference that Ford listed, but think about this. They are still both at 400# of compression. There's quite a few people out there running these engines that dream that their cylinders had 400# of compression. Those engines are running just fine and are extremely reliable. If it was mine, the most that I would be considering doing at this point would be to run Sea Foam or some other type of treatment in the fuel to try to clean up the valves and combustion chambers. The lowest cylinders may have valve guides that aren't sealing perfectly any more. 7.3's are known for that. Don't worry about those until you can hear the chuffing start. Unless you are just dying to tear into your engine and spend a lot of money while doing it.