What Oils Do You Use ?

Worstenemy453

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Posts
1,173
Reaction score
0
Location
King George, Va
Just curious as to what everyone is using, how many miles you've used it and if you have had any issues.

We have seen quite a few Rotella related injector failures here at the shop, as well as failures from using the WIX filter with the taller filter cap.
 

snicklas

6.0 and Loving It!!
Staff member
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Posts
6,164
Reaction score
2,342
Location
Greenfield, Indiana
Glad you asked this question.....

At first I used Rotella dino.... and it was ok...
Switched to Mororcraft dino, and have always used Motorcraft filters (Oil and Fuel, will not use anything else!!!)

However, has anyone heard how the 6.0 likes DELO 400LE? The Motorcraft just when up to almost $17 a jug (I don't think it is synthetic or synthetic blend). Which make the oil for an oil change 3 (5qt Jugs) x $17 + 7% Tax = $55 for oil.... the filter is still $22...

But the DELO is $10 a gallon.... so that makes it 4 (4qt Jugs) x $10 + 7% tax = $43

SO
$77 for Motorcraft oil and filter
$65 for Delo and Motorcraft filter....

I will buy the Motorcraft if it is that much better than the Delo...... but for $8 difference, and have leftovers......
 

ford390gashog

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Posts
224
Reaction score
2
Location
brentwood
HEUI systems are prone to oil foaming related failures as the oil is used to operate the injector. Delo 400 or Mobil 1300 is all we use at work the 6.0's never seem to complain.
 

snicklas

6.0 and Loving It!!
Staff member
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Posts
6,164
Reaction score
2,342
Location
Greenfield, Indiana
Aborigine,

I know you are familiar with the older mechanical diesels. The newer diesels work differently. The 7.3, 6.0, and the 6.4 PSD's.

These, and other engines use a HEUI (Hydraulicaly operated. Electronicaly acuated, Unit Injector). These engines, instead of having a low pressure lift pump, and a high pressure fuel injection pump, they have a higher pressure ~70psi lift pump, and a HPOP High Pressure Oil Pump. The fuel is pumped to the injector, and high pressure engine oil 500 - 4000psi to fire the injector. Since the engine oil is what makes the pressure to cause an injection, problems with oil quality, foaming, lubricity and other issues can cause damafe to the injector, and hurt performance.
 

Arborigine

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Posts
185
Reaction score
0
Location
Sierra Nevada Mountains
That is interesting. Is this oil shared with the engine or segregated?
I guess i am stuck in a time warp, at work I am currently rebuilding a Stuska Dynomometer, a late 40s "Coventry ******" man portable fire pump (inline 4 cyl 750 cc OHC aluminum engine) and a pair of 1969 Lotus Class B (F-2) cars.
This new system reminds me of Preston Tucker's cam-less developmental engine for the 1948 Tucker, it had an oil-hydraulic valve solonoid system operated from the distributor, but the available oils at the time would foam and shut it down in a short time. It wasn't until much later that synthetic oils pioneered by the Germans were developed that would have made his design functional. he wound up having to install Franklin engines to get the cars going.
 
Last edited:

ford390gashog

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Posts
224
Reaction score
2
Location
brentwood
Shared. Low pressure pump feeds the high pressure oil pump. Ford finally did away with the system starting with the 6.7 and just uses a HPFP high pressure fuel pump instead.
 

Arborigine

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Posts
185
Reaction score
0
Location
Sierra Nevada Mountains
Thats too bad, a segregated system would allow a better non-foaming fluid. You might contact Swepco Oil and see if 306 engine oil might do the trick. It sure quiets down Goldwing "whine".

A lot of guys have been running Rotella dino and synth in Honda ST 1100 and 1300 motorcycles with great results, and the oil is shared by the transmission and clutch.
 

snicklas

6.0 and Loving It!!
Staff member
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Posts
6,164
Reaction score
2,342
Location
Greenfield, Indiana
Yes the oil is shared, when you change the oil. One nice "safety feature" that comes with this type of injection system, if you have a catrostrophic event where you loose engine oil (loose a drain plug, knock a hole in the pan, blow a line, plow a filter, etc) the engine will quit running before it looses all its oil because the injectors will not longer fire...

This type of injector is extremely ******* oil. The way the injector itself works, (all are similar but I am more familiar with the 6.0 so that is what I will describe here) The ongine oil is pressureized in the HPOP (High Pressure Oil Pump). The minimum oil pressure to fire the injector on startup is ~400PSI (this oil pressure is created by the HPOP being turned by the starter in turning over the engine to start it). This high pressure oil is transported from the HPOP through the heads via cast-in oil gallerys to the Unit Injector, for each cylinder, in the case of the 6.0 4 per head. This oil flows into the "top" of the injector. There is a shuttle valve located in the top of the injector. This controls the oil flow into the injector and to the intensifier piston, the intensifier piston is a 3x "amplification" of the oil pressure, this is the pressure the fuel is injected. The fuel fill a "chamber" at the bottom of the injector, below the intinsifier piston, this fuel it pumped into the chamber at lift pump pressure. Injection pressure is created by the oil pressure on the intensifier piston. The shuttle valve, moves back an forth to fill and fire the injector. This shuttle valve is one of the places the oil is sheared, or quite literally "cut" by the motion of the valve shuttle, as it moves very quickly through the oil stream. This oil stream is under a great deal of pressure. As stated earlier, from 400psi at start-up, to almost 4000psi at a WOT loaded acceleration. The pressure the fuel is injected into the cylinder can reach up to ~20,000psi at injection......

This is one reason the OCI is "short" wither using dino or synthetic is because of this shearing. I have read that some owners that have done lab testing on the oil, that oil that started life as a 15w40 oil, at the 5000 mile mark had been sheared to an equivelent of 10w30. Also, that shuttle valve suffers from a phenemon called "stiction" where when the oil is cold, it will stick on the bore, causing low power, and a miss after cold start-up. I have this right now, and need an oil change, once I change the oil it will clear up. The system is not perfect, and stiction was not an issue in the 7.3PSD injectors because there was a return spring in the bore for the shuttle valve, this was eliminated in the 6.0.
 

Worstenemy453

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Posts
1,173
Reaction score
0
Location
King George, Va
I hate to chime in on an oil thread, but just how does Rotella engine oil cause an injector to fail?

What is said under me pretty much hits the nail on the head, to sum it up, high pressure oil fires off the injectors. Oil cleanliness and quality is very important on these.

Aborigine,

I know you are familiar with the older mechanical diesels. The newer diesels work differently. The 7.3, 6.0, and the 6.4 PSD's.

These, and other engines use a HEUI (Hydraulicaly operated. Electronicaly acuated, Unit Injector). These engines, instead of having a low pressure lift pump, and a high pressure fuel injection pump, they have a higher pressure ~70psi lift pump, and a HPOP High Pressure Oil Pump. The fuel is pumped to the injector, and high pressure engine oil 500 - 4000psi to fire the injector. Since the engine oil is what makes the pressure to cause an injection, problems with oil quality, foaming, lubricity and other issues can cause damafe to the injector, and hurt performance.

The 6.4 doesnt share that same system. 6.4 is common rail, which would work the same as the 6.7.
 

Worstenemy453

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Posts
1,173
Reaction score
0
Location
King George, Va
Glad you asked this question.....

At first I used Rotella dino.... and it was ok...
Switched to Mororcraft dino, and have always used Motorcraft filters (Oil and Fuel, will not use anything else!!!)

However, has anyone heard how the 6.0 likes DELO 400LE? The Motorcraft just when up to almost $17 a jug (I don't think it is synthetic or synthetic blend). Which make the oil for an oil change 3 (5qt Jugs) x $17 + 7% Tax = $55 for oil.... the filter is still $22...

But the DELO is $10 a gallon.... so that makes it 4 (4qt Jugs) x $10 + 7% tax = $43

SO
$77 for Motorcraft oil and filter
$65 for Delo and Motorcraft filter....

I will buy the Motorcraft if it is that much better than the Delo...... but for $8 difference, and have leftovers......

Never head of the Delo.

We offer Motorcraft or Amsoil. with Motorcraft or Fram filters only. The Valvoline synthetic is also a very good oil as well.
 

snicklas

6.0 and Loving It!!
Staff member
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Posts
6,164
Reaction score
2,342
Location
Greenfield, Indiana
The 6.4 doesn't share that same system. 6.4 is common rail, which would work the same as the 6.7.

I stand corrected. It is a High Pressure Common Rail System, not a HEUI system. So that is more like the Fuel Injection system on a gas engine, correct?
 

ford390gashog

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Posts
224
Reaction score
2
Location
brentwood
Never head of the Delo.

We offer Motorcraft or Amsoil. with Motorcraft or Fram filters only. The Valvoline synthetic is also a very good oil as well.

What rock you been hiding under?:dunno DELO is the original Diesel Engine Lubricating Oil designed for Caterpiller engines during the 1930's to prevent piston ring pack sticking , combat high PH and lower piston skirt wear. Its been around a long time;Really
 

Worstenemy453

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Posts
1,173
Reaction score
0
Location
King George, Va
What rock you been hiding under?:dunno DELO is the original Diesel Engine Lubricating Oil designed for Caterpiller engines during the 1930's to prevent piston ring pack sticking , combat high PH and lower piston skirt wear. Its been around a long time;Really

Ive never seen it around me. I dont have any Cat places close enough to look.
 
Top