Water/**** injection

[dozer]

Your right F350camper

...Demand pumps will cycle on and off to meet a preset flow rating and by increasing the amount off back pressure required to cause the pump to cycle off it could flow more water through a nozzle thats rated at lower pressures.

Mark, fyi, the normal 'demand' pump cycles on and off to meet a -pressure- specification, not a flow spec.


Nozzles: the "flow" rating for a nozzle or injector is always spec'ed at a specific pressure. I.e. 1 gph AT 50psi, or whatever.

The flow from a nozzle will increase as the square root of the pressure applied. So if you double (times 2) the line-pressure from 50 to 100 psi, the 1gph@50psi nozzle will flow 1.414 gph (square root of 2).

fwiw, we've been playing with WI on our Jeep ZJ, because it started pinging after 160K miles. The WI does indeed appear to be stripping the carbon out; because it's stopped pinging now.

Also, on a recent trip to NV and back, we averaged 21.3 mpg; where it had been around 20.2. So about a 5% MPG improvement. Straight water, at 40psi from an RV pump, via some unknown nozzle that I pulled outta the junkpile here. Not sure of the flow-rate, but it's not much. It just seemed "about right".

Control was a dumb switch on the seat next to me. I'd turn it on whenever we were driving along; and shut it off when we came to a stop anywhere.

Just a hacked-together kludge for a couple of trips. Now I need to engineer a more sanitary and effective (and multi-stage) rev-2, and get it installed...in my spare time....between breaths or something...

Richard

 

[Markinter]

Mark, fyi, the normal 'demand' pump cycles on and off to meet a -pressure- specification, not a flow spec.

I'm using methodology from my rpm type pumps and trying to force it onto demand pumps, probably not accurate. Have you checked to see if adjusting the pressure up on a demand pump will increase its gph? I would be curious.

 

[dozer]

Of course, water in the cylinder can interfere with piston lubrication; depending on the engine and conditions......and humid air by itself promotes more complete combustion, due to the OH free-radicals acting as catalysts.

So there's something to be said for the mist/fully-evaporated setups too.

Many tests have shown that a humid-air system lowers -peak- combustion temperature by many hundreds of degrees F. That isn't necessarily the same as reducing the -average exhaust gas temp- tho...altho many tests did indeed show lower EGT's as well.

 

[Duke]

You know, it's funny you guys talkin about "****" on this thread......last night my wife walks in and she's looking at this thread while I'm reading it and says "what are you reading about, "****" ?????!!!!!! She was all worried!!

 

[Markinter]

Very funny

 

[Markinter]

And injecting it!

 

[dozer]

you guys.... :rofl

'course, it's just a sad reflection of how the constant propaganda-media drumbeat has everyone scared of everything all the time. Makes 'em cry out for 'security'....the powers-that-be love that...

Mark, all of the "shur-flo" type pumps I've seen are "positive displacement"; so in a theoretical sense, yes, the flow would be directly proportional to RPM, and the pressure would rise to whatever value was necessary to get the fluid outta the way of the pistons.

In practical terms, the pressure-switch would shut off the pump first. And in any case, those pumps will just stall, or leak back past the valves, when the pressure gets too high.

I plan on adding an 'accumulator' to my system too; which is like a well-storage tank. It greatly minimizes the frequency of the pump turning on and off....by 10:1, or even 100:1 if the accum. is large enough.

In fact, one of those 'mini' bladder-type well tanks (3 gal?) would make a good accum. for a WI system. Not sure where the heck I'd put it in a Jeep ZJ tho... But in a medium truck, a place might be found....

I've read that the emulsifying chemicals have gotten quite good recently. So it might be possible to mix the water right into the fuel tank. I'd first want to check into how a particular IP and injector type liked that, or not, tho...

 

[nevrenufhp]

We had (at work)a '92 DT466 blow off an injector tip from running water through it. Not sure how water got that far in the system, but I hear the injectors cant run water thru very easily.

 

[Duke]

I wonder if that's a testament to the strength of the DT466....rather than Hydrolock, it blew out an injector!?!?

Great topic...fun reading

 

[Markinter]

Here is a short clip of a guy injecting too much water!
http://www.lookatentertainment.com/v/v-568.htm

 

[dozer]

yah, I know that a lot of the injectors on gassers will seize if you try to run water through them.

But with an emulsion, there is an intimate mix of water and fuel, with about 70% fuel....so there is still lubrication. I would imagine that different pumps/injectors have different levels of tolerance for it. Just don't know which way -ours- will jump...

One advantage to running emulsion of course is that you never have to worry about water in your tank again!

 

[PackRat]

Ah, crud. I'm all

gpm, gph, ml/min, cc, orifice diam, volumex2 = pressure squared?

When I start comparing all the numbers here, with the nozzles available locally, all I get is a formula for disaster. Nothing jives.

I'm more confused than a hungry baby in a ******* bar.

 

[Pastor Bob]

For what it's worth, I just installed a Stage 2 waterMeth system in my 93 CTD.
I stirred up a mix of 70/30 water/**** and did some test runs on my "normal test hill". This is a posted 10% grade which is just about 2/3 mile.
With the valet in low power mode this run would result in temps of 1250*F-1300*F by the top...
When I triggered the watermeth (comes in at 20-22psi boost) my temps dropped to 1000*F-1050*F and I could not get them to go over that...even hog nuts in OD did not push it to 1100*F.
This was done using only the initial (primary) jet on the two stage system which runs at roughly 200 - 220psi.
I think you may find, like I am, that one of the big issues is the amount of advance you use on injection timing. Since the **** acts as a "facilitator" for the burn you will have a faster more efficient burn and thus higher cylinder pressures. Normall cyl. pressures AND EGT's will kill a head gasket pretty quick but in the case of the watermeth, which keeps you temps down, it is now a cyl. pressure issue ....at least that is my thinking. Perhaps the answer or part of the answer is to ease back on timing (were possible) and let the cooling and cylinder pressures come down a bit together......just a thought ..

pastor bob....

 

[rubberfish]

I had the same kit on mine like what Pastor Bob has,
and I was getting very similar results, and a 60 hp gain.
But, at five gallons a week, it's a bit of a hassle
to keep it full all the time. I was buying **** by the caseload.
The folks at the local Walmart must of thought I was nuts.

Well,,,,they weren't far off I guess

Am I going to use it again when I finish this truck?
You bet

 

[bsays]

Let me know how it goes.