Water heater element to heat WMO

MontanaJack

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Posts
79
Reaction score
0
Location
Helena Montana
I know that it has been done. In fact I've read a few posts on how well they work and the dangers involved.

I'm curious as to how one would go about wiring a 120v water heater element to the thermostat and then into an extension cord. I'm no electrician by any stretch of the imagination but I'm confident I could redneck something together. I would much prefer to do it correctly though.

Does anyone have pictures of how they've done it? A diagram? Or even a simple description in layman terms?
 

Clb

Another old truck
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Posts
5,755
Reaction score
2,235
Location
nannyfornia
Whatcha trying to do?
Whats the rating on the ellement?
 

MontanaJack

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Posts
79
Reaction score
0
Location
Helena Montana
I'd like to put it in a 55gal drum that feeds WMO into my centrifuge. I believe these elements only get to about 150*-170*. That's not real close to boiling, but with enough time any water will steam itself away and it should allow me to feed my fuge a little faster without having to worry about it catching fire:D
 

Clb

Another old truck
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Posts
5,755
Reaction score
2,235
Location
nannyfornia
There are hi and low ellements! The amperage and wattage are what you need first off!
Most h2o heaters are run off 10 ga wire 30 amps' you would be pushing a 20 amp circuit hard! Second most are 220 volt 3o amp (2- 115-120v leads) and your homeowner 16ga cordset WILL NOT DUE, 220 cords are not cheap and usuay use twistlock ends!
You are on the right track,,,,
I have not run the equip. You are talking about so am a little blind here.
Sparky should chime in soon????
Have you looked in the alternate fuels section here for a primer?
 

MontanaJack

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Posts
79
Reaction score
0
Location
Helena Montana

AcIdBuRn02ZTS

Full Access Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Posts
1,052
Reaction score
89
Location
Indiana
120v is gonna hurt you on power consumption/output.

Either way you go voltage wise, the "low watt density" elements apparently hold up better. You need to know the amperage of the element you are going to run before you can size power cables/breakers/etc..

You will definitely want to insulate your drum heavily. Also keep in mind that water evaporates at room temp... so even at 100-120F, the water will evaporate that much faster. Josh boils his oil to dewater it... however he has 4kw+ worth of heating elements which I've been curious to the cost of running them.
 

MontanaJack

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Posts
79
Reaction score
0
Location
Helena Montana
Ahh, gracias. (that's thanks in Espanol)

What about something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-VOLT-600-Watt-UL-Low-Voltage-Submersible-Water-Heater-Element-dual-coil-/301408546986?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item462d5970aa
The drawback I see is needing to use a battery instead of an outlet.

I guess the thing I'm having a hard time understanding is... if you can put one of those 120v elements in a water heater, and plug it into a regular ol' outlet... Why is it all of the sudden hellishly difficult nigh on impossible to do the same thing in my garage with oil?
 

AcIdBuRn02ZTS

Full Access Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Posts
1,052
Reaction score
89
Location
Indiana
600 watt is less then your block heater... Gonna need a good bit more then that to heat a 55 gallon drum.
 

MontanaJack

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Posts
79
Reaction score
0
Location
Helena Montana
Thanks for the link. I'd prefer 220 myself but my garage isn't wired for it.
The elements I can get at Home Depot have that same low watt rating, are longer, and are only $10
 

MontanaJack

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Posts
79
Reaction score
0
Location
Helena Montana
Mankypro talks about a very similar idea here in post #8
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?35617-WMO-***-filter-lifespan&highlight=Water+heater+element
 

Josh Carmack

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Posts
368
Reaction score
2
Location
Ripley, TN
Time I chimed in here, been quiet on the board cause I'm busy.... I have never heated with anything BUT water elements. I started out in a 5gal bucket with a 1200W heater dangling from an extension cord into the bucket. I keep saying I'm rebuilding my entire system, but I have literally done little to nothing in that respect. I have had as much as 10,000W of heat in a 55gal drum. Every batch I made in the later part of my adventures was heated to boiling.


Something to keep in mind, a WATT is A WATT is a WATT it does not matter what the voltage is, 50W at 12V is exactly the same as 50W at 480V what differs if the amperage to create that same wattage. 50W at 12V is a little over 4Amps, whereas 50W at 480V is only 0.1043 Amps

What does that mean????
The lower voltage elements will require larger wire to push the same wattage as a high voltage element of the same wattage.
A 5000W element will draw just over what a 12GA wire is NEMA rated for, but will work on short runs ie less than 10'. 12GA wire is actually rated for up to 40 AMPS in enclosed cabinets etc, (think inside closed industrial equipment cabinets, internal wiring in equipment and etc)

I run 5000W elements in all of my setup and they all are wired using 12GA "Carol SJ" service cord. The high heat and oil does cause pretty rapid deterioration of the submerged wire and causes me to have to periodically cut the end off and rewire. I boil my batches until the boiling stops. Sometimes that's thirty minutes, sometimes that 3 hours.

Cost I have forgotten, but it was minimal. For example, lets say I pay 0.15 a KWh, that's 0.75 an hr to run a 5000W element, I have heated for as long as 8 hrs. so that 8hr run cost me 6 bucks. I don't remember exactly what I pay per KWh, but I know it's close to 0.15

The problems with heating an entire batch at once are numerous. You loose an enormous amount of heat from the top and sides of the drum. You waste a lot of heat maintaining that batch when you only need to heat what is going through the fuge. Hot oil burns,,,,lol, I have a ruined pair of glasses that saved my eyes from a hot oil splash.
Fire hazard rises exponentially as heat rises, and I have flashed over more than one batch cause I'm absent minded and forgetful. I have oil stains all the way to the ceiling of my barn from a flash-over in a semi enclosed drum where the repetitive flash-overs shot oil up to the ceiling through the bung holes. I came home from town one day to hear a repetitive whoomp whoomp with a really slow rhythm. It was a batch flashing over, running out of oxygen, and repeating when the fumes exhausted and it drew enough fresh air through air convection to do it again. With each Whoomp it shot several ounces of oil up to the ceiling as I witness upon walking into the barn.

Last but not least, oil cannot carry the heat away from the element as fast or as good as water does, so they don't last long. even the ULWD ones burn up pretty quick but still last considerably longer than the cheap ones, or at least they do at the temperatures I heat to. I have noticed the 120V ones lasted a lot longer, I'm sure it had a lot to do with the fact that they could only heat the oil so much, so there was a large enough temperature differential between the element and the oil for the oil to carry the heat away from the element fast enough. Something I have toyed with is using 4 5000W elements wired in series parallel to still only produce 5000W, but do it over a much larger surface area.

In the end, I will be using one or two coffee maker heaters to heat my batches, they will only draw about 1500W and will only be heating a very small amount of oil at a time, but that method will only work using a motor driven fuge that is drip fed. I briefly played with a home made inline heater but dropped the idea because it was bulky and unpredictable in the way I wanted to use it. If I took the time I'm sure I could make it work.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
91,275
Posts
1,129,668
Members
24,098
Latest member
William88

Members online

Top