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Stiff Clutch - Now No Clutch?

Discussion in '6.9L IH & 7.3L IDI Diesels' started by OR_Coast_IDI, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. OR_Coast_IDI

    OR_Coast_IDI Registered User

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    Hello -

    Got some clutch issues on my - 1990, F350, 7.3, zf5, Banks Turbo, Crew Cab.

    It was a stiff clutch - now it's like there is no clutch?

    Background:

    My clutch had been stiff for a few years. I hypothesized about the firewall/linkage being an issue, but never found any significant movement; thought that maybe there was an issue with failure of the slave/master or air in the line, which I replaced say 10 years back; or maybe it was a deformed/damaged clutch fork as I remembered having some difficulty getting the slave in place with the available clearance.

    It slowly became stiffer and stiffer - eventually grinding a little bit into Reverse/First if not delicate with your shifts, but always drivable. It sat for a year or so and then was moved, under its own power, into my workshop about 6 months back.

    Yesterday, I went to move it out of the shop, only to find that when I eased out the pedal, the clutch did not engage. It will shift freely with the engine running between all gears, without depressing the clutch - only a slight grind going into reverse. With the engine off, and the tranny in gear, it will turnover without moving the rig.

    So what are your thoughts folks?

    I was expecting a progressively stiffer, more difficult clutch and further uncomfortable grinding - but now it's 100% the opposite.

    Obviously I'm going to have to pull it all and replace the clutch - but what else might be grenaded in there? Sheared input shaft on the tranny? Mucked up or chowdered flywheel? What should I be prepared for? What have you all seen/experienced.

    Additional Symptoms:

    1. For the better part of 15 years, from a stop - under heavy load - or downshifting in an emergency, there has always been a bit of a screetching/grinding noise. It has been a consistent noise and was unchanged in frequency or onset throughout this time - only under heavy load...

    2. The last few times I drove it, it was stalling now and then but this seemed symptomatic of it being overdue for a fuel filter change and sitting for a long time.

    Additionally:

    1. If you're chiming in here, let me know your favorite clutch/flywheel on a modest budget as well - I'm in the process of prepping the truck for sale, so I want to give the next owner something worthy of the vehicle - but I'm not looking at it for myself or any specific purposes anymore.

    2. If I need a tranny - who's the go to for rebuilds online - or someone local up here in Oregon. I'm out on the remote central coast.

    Thanks for any feedback!
     
  2. BrianX128

    BrianX128 Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Either your input shaft sheared off or dual mass flywheel is literally dual masses now and isn't spinning on the flywheel side. You can take the inspection plate off and sit a phone under for a video that will tell us more.



    LUK single mass flywheel and clutch kits are great and not expensive.
     
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  3. OR_Coast_IDI

    OR_Coast_IDI Registered User

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    Headed to the shop now - will do. I just walked away from it yesterday when it decided it did not move under it's own power anymore...
     
  4. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    I'll second the Luk kits. I love mine.
     
  5. OR_Coast_IDI

    OR_Coast_IDI Registered User

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    Hello -

    Thanks for the clutch recommendations

    Here are a couple of video links of it running with the plate off.

    Looks to me like it is either the clutch disk has completely sheered off of the spline - or the input shaft on the tranny is toast.

    Surprised also to see so little perhaps no movement of the pressure plate.

    LMK what you think - thanks again for chiming in.


    Video 1:

    Zero to :15 - clutch depressed several times during glow cycle.
    :16 to 1:20 startup smoke and idling.
    1:20 to 2:00 shifting through forward gears.
    2:01 to finish in and out of reverse twice then back to forward.

    Video 2:

    Starting with it in gear and shifting through all gears without clutching.







    Cheers!
     
  6. OR_Coast_IDI

    OR_Coast_IDI Registered User

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    BrianX128 -

    I just watched your clip more closely, I see that I should get another shot of mine with the flywheel oriented in a position that better shows the clutch movement when not running - and/or lack of it.

    Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and recommendations.

    I’ll probably start pulling the tranny tomorrow - if it’s gonna need a fresh tranny - definitely gonna have to make a call on parting it or rebuilding.
     
  7. BrianX128

    BrianX128 Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Before you do, you could always remove the fork and see if it broke. I can't tell for sure but something just looks off when you press the clutch. Someone who has done this more than me may chime in..
     
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  8. lotzagoodstuff

    lotzagoodstuff Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Good morning. I had the center section of a single mass flywheel clutch "break away" from the section around it that had the friction material on it. I can't really explain how this happened, but it did make some noise and act funny about a block away from where it finally broke away completely, I can only assume the initial noise was a crack starting to happen, maybe the center portion was cracked but not completely separated from the outer friction material area. Wish I had taken a picture but it did act like the input shaft was broken when it did finally fail, and it all made perfect sense when it got pulled apart.

    Good luck, interested to see what's going on in there :popcorn
     
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  9. OR_Coast_IDI

    OR_Coast_IDI Registered User

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    Hello Folks -

    Haven't had a chance to pull it yet, in the meantime, here's a couple more clips of the clutch action and play.

    Clutch Plate/Disk Play:



    Clutch Action via Pedal - barely any motion of pressure plate...

     
  10. OR_Coast_IDI

    OR_Coast_IDI Registered User

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    Ordering up parts this afternoon...

    Does this look right:

    CLutch Kit:
    LUK 07131
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4698477&cc=1126549

    Flywheel:
    LUK LFW127
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4698477&cc=1126549&jsn=10530

    Clutch Fork - Just Because:
    LUK LF9839
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6786124&cc=1126549&jsn=10527

    Slave - Just in case, I've had two fail in the past:
    (I won't mess with it until after testing it as is - but just in case)
    LUK LSC158
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4695393&cc=1126549&jsn=10529

    Bushing Kit:
    Is there another one that should be used or is this all that's available?
    DORMAN "Help" 14041
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=580974&jsn=10523

    Feedback/Confirmation welcome...
     
  11. BrianX128

    BrianX128 Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    There should be a kit that has everything in it.. LUK 07225 I believe. That first video is your dual mass section of the flywheel and it's super broke. 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch of play is all that's acceptable if I remember correctly.

    Also something is very weird with your clutch. Nothing moves. Not sure if it's the fork or broken fingers on the pressure plate or if your throw out bearing ran away..
     
  12. OR_Coast_IDI

    OR_Coast_IDI Registered User

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    Thanks for all the feedback folks.

    I got it all installed last weekend and moved out of the shop so I could pull my other rig in.

    The work went pretty smoothly, the issue was; part failed clutch pressure plate and DMF - part me being a bonehead.

    Mixed feelings so far on the SMF conversion. Rollover noise and gear noise from a stop is horrible. I'll follow up when I have more time to look into it.

    In the meantime, I've moved on to the other rig - just wanted to update and share my appreciation.

    Here's what's happening with the other RIG:

    https://www.oilburners.net/threads/fuel-shut-off-solenoid-clicking-but-no-fuel-shutoff.88643/
     
  13. BrianX128

    BrianX128 Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Add 1 more quart of atf to the trans through the shifter hole so it doesn't spill out the side. Be careful it's a permanent stain. I added two to mine but that's not recommended. If your idle is still 600/650 make it 750/800. This all helps a lot short of sub 1000 rpm idling around in first or second.
     
  14. OR_Coast_IDI

    OR_Coast_IDI Registered User

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    Thanks Brian - I’ll let you know how it goes in a few weeks when I can switch back to working on that rig!
     
  15. Steven Sochalski

    Steven Sochalski Registered User

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    I also had some rollover, the extra quart of atf fixed it. I might have done 1.5 though. Still get a little when lugging below 1k, but try the extra atf for sure.
     
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