Sleeving a block & piston locations

[Brad S.]

two rod caps picture, that upper cap in that picture, can you confirm to me if that is the rod on the RIGHT SIDE of journal? the lower rod is LEFT side of the pair? I'm guessing but I have suspicions based on the marks in the bearings and on the crank.

It appears the bearing on the upper cap in picture is starting to fail and is wearing through to the copper layer.

Al

Yep you are correct on the position of the rod caps. The top one in the pic is from #8 cylinder, bottom cap in the pic is #7 cylinder.
I grabbed the caps again and looked closer as well, it looks like #8 cap has a very slight copper "sliver" about halfway through the cap radius.
When I rub my finger across the bearings I can just feel a little irregularity to the surface.
Good eyes, thanks thats why I like to pass pics along so someone else can see them.

 

[icanfixall]

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I may be able to post a pic of a rod bearing thats bad lets see...
Wow... Lucky me...

 

[riotwarrior]

Yep you are correct on the position of the rod caps. The top one in the pic is from #8 cylinder, bottom cap in the pic is #7 cylinder.
I grabbed the caps again and looked closer as well, it looks like #8 cap has a very slight copper "sliver" about halfway through the cap radius.
When I rub my finger across the bearings I can just feel a little irregularity to the surface.
Good eyes, thanks thats why I like to pass pics along so someone else can see them.

Thank you and I'm glad I can still read a bearing and crank.

The crank, shows signs indicative of trash in oil on the journal. If you look really close at your crank and bearings you will see the marks lining up and what I mean there is some discoloration on the crank on both journals that lines up with the marks in bearings. One is noticeably worse than the other and so long as you cannot feel it it should be ok. Again mic the crank a minimum 4 way mic readings and such so long as its round and no taper and not gouged your golden, a micro polish and I'd say yer golden.

Keep a close eye on your bearings and read them closely and inspect the crank, take your time, it's worth while looking and learning especially when there are people here willing to help you.

Gary I think your rod is limp and not working anymore...does that come with old age and being beaten to hard to long and too much?

Sorry this thread just officially went to the gutter!

Gary damn you for posting your limp rod again..especially now for the new intern

Al

 

[icanfixall]

Limp rod... Thats a ball buster Al... You might recall thats from the engine I drive every day. I bought that from a p*ick on ebay for $87.50 high bid. It was on the upper desert in the guys back yard. It was not covered and rain water was in it. This I knew but knowing I planned to sleeve it was not a worry. What was a worry was pulling the heads and trying to hand crank the engine. Plenty of rusty cylinders. I could not make a 360 degree turn so I went the other direction but it stopped turning too. Then I noticed number 5 piston never moved. Pulled the pan after draining off about 6 gallons of oil and mostly water to find rod 5 busted and had slightly hit the pan rail and chipped the cast iron. Where the rod had tip the pan it had cut a hole about 1/2 inch long that the guy had covered with grease and dirt. When I picked up the engine I asked why it was pulled from his truck.. Oh... Ess gots muie high miles on it.. I drives it back and forth to mexico. **** is what the guy was. A member her told me after I got it rebuilt I should have driven back there and showed off the new paint engine. And told him all I did was clean it and paint it. Boy does that thing run great... Might have been more said than that... Oh gee.. Look at that mess on your porch....

 

[Brad S.]

As ordered more pics.
This batch is both rod bearings from 7&8 rods.
And pistons from 7&8.

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#8 rod bearings, the bearing on the right is the same one from before, bottom half,
other bearing is top half, look close has a nice wear spot on it.

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#7 rod bearings, the left bearing has also been seen before.\
And the right bearing, top half, has the same copper colored wear spot.
I'm sensing a pattern..???

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#8 piston, notice the 2nd ring is still in, stuck, very stuck, could be behind oil consumption.
There are some marks but they are not very deep,

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#8 piston side view both sides.

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#7 piston, again some scratches.

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#7 piston side views

Ok doctors of the OB let me know what you think.

 

[riotwarrior]

As ordered more pics.
This batch is both rod bearings from 7&8 rods.
And pistons from 7&8.

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#8 rod bearings, the bearing on the right is the same one from before, bottom half,
other bearing is top half, look close has a nice wear spot on it.

Shiny spot on top half of bearing is normal wear induced from compression stroke and subsequent pressure spike created when ignition occurs, this level of shiny is indicative of larger bearing clearances as the oil film gets squeezed out to a minimum thickness....JM2CW ...bearings are not horrible I've seen and personally run much worse. However they are in need of replacement.

Did this vehicle sit for a prolonged period of time at some point that you are aware of?

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#7 rod bearings, the left bearing has also been seen before.\
And the right bearing, top half, has the same copper colored wear spot.
I'm sensing a pattern..???

Pattern is normal but indicative of dirty oil as I had previously mentioned...IMHO

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#8 piston, notice the 2nd ring is still in, stuck, very stuck, could be behind oil consumption.
There are some marks but they are not very deep,

Here I'm seeing mild scuff of piston face to point where the slight ribbing on pistons edge for oil retention is worn off in one area just below ring land.

Stuck ring is likely due to coke from oil being burnt behind and above/below ring it self and again just EWAG here.

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#8 piston side view both sides.

Here I'm seeing what appears to be a slight burr developing on the second ring land however I can't be certain without actually physically inspecting it.

Also that there is a good bit of scuffing on the one face of upper area and what appears none on the other thrust side.

Nice kinda chunk scrape what have you too on the pic on right on top edge..

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#7 piston, again some scratches.

Doesn't look too bad slight scuffing...

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#7 piston side views

Ok doctors of the OB let me know what you think.

I'm seeing burrs on this #7 second ring land or what appears to be burrs.

My question to you is what is the objective here for you? Are you really going to sleeve a block and reuse the pistons because honestly I wouldn't do it these pistons are far to gone to be viable to sleeve and reuse.

Now this is just my thoughts and yours is really the one that counts.

To me I'm seeing a lot of coking going on and just don't see the viability of saving these pistons unless it's a quick rebuild and run it like you stole it.

There is a lot more to comment on but lets keep this to readers digest version for now.

Thanks for the pics

Al

 

[icanfixall]

The pistons are worn out. Seems someone did not change oil often enough. Trying to clean these pistons is going to by miserable work and really not worth it in the long run. they will never be a good fit in any cylinder. As for the rod bearings. they show plenty of wear but its even across the bearing. Those cylinders were bored square to the cylinders. This engine is requiring a complete overhaul. You may be able to polish the crank but it may need a 10 10 cut too.

 

[riotwarrior]

The pistons are worn out. Seems someone did not change oil often enough. Trying to clean these pistons is going to by miserable work and really not worth it in the long run. they will never be a good fit in any cylinder. As for the rod bearings. they show plenty of wear but its even across the bearing. Those cylinders were bored square to the cylinders. This engine is requiring a complete overhaul. You may be able to polish the crank but it may need a 10 10 cut too.

Oh come on Gary, that engine could be re ringed and new bearings..if you where going to sell the truck that is and wanted to do a cheap on the fly re-ring and bearing to make it run and sell well. Gary is correct the burr on the ring lands is telltale and so is the coking of oil in ring lands etc.Oil change hell we just runner n swap filters now n then why change oil she's an oil burner

 

[icanfixall]

This is a classic example of what happens to oil that has the viscosity improvers in it. Oil never wears out but it gets dirty. Thats what its supposed to do. Cool the bearings and wash away the crap from running an internal combustion engine. Lubing things is a small part of what it does. When its run too long between changes the viscosity improvers draops out on the ring land areas and cokes up freezing the rings. Now you have created a scraper thats carving away at the cylinders plus you have no real concentric ring to cylinder contact. So blowby results. Ya know I'm making this up as I go along... But actually you need to change oil. Most of us change it way too often. We really need to drive these engines hard to require a 3000 mile oil change. Running a toilet paper bypass oil filter is a great idea to rid the oil of the soot and crap we have in our oil. Nothing will get rid of all of it but reducing some of it helps a lot...

 

[Brad S.]

Good info, but now I want to ask about using a gapless 2nd ring.
I've heard that guys using those types of rings, keep the oil from getting as dirty???
But still changing oil at normal times.

 

[Brad S.]

Still more pics, oil pump stuff

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Cover & gear

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Housing

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Oil out here.

 

[riotwarrior]

Wow...some kinda nasty passed through that pump for a while too....

Hmmm....not nice at all...sorry to say...still likely build good pressure though not as good as it could if not all gouged up

I'd likely try some emery and clean oil and a known flat surface and polish the grooves out if possible. Somewhere this is some specs on the pump for clearances so you can blue print it.

 

[fordf350man]

Good info, but now I want to ask about using a gapless 2nd ring.
I've heard that guys using those types of rings, keep the oil from getting as dirty???
But still changing oil at normal times.

not really to sure and dont remember exactly what my buddy told me, but he said gap less rings are useless, i am going by his word because he was and has been a performance crate engine builder and machinist for over 20 years now, he is very good at engine work so i dont argue with him, dont know if it would make a difference in a diesel though

 

[Knuckledragger]

Gapless rings are good if you are fixing to sell the vehicle soon. They tend to wear in the bore a lot (high tension) and although they cut down on oil use, they are weak (two rings on one land, hence no gap), so you wouldn't get much mileage from them.

Clue: if gapless rings were so good, why don't the manufacturers use them?

 

[idiabuse]

Gapless rings are good if you are fixing to sell the vehicle soon. They tend to wear in the bore a lot (high tension) and although they cut down on oil use, they are weak (two rings on one land, hence no gap), so you wouldn't get much mileage from them.

Clue: if gapless rings were so good, why don't the manufacturers use them?

They used to say the same thing

Clue: if gapless rings were so good, why don't the manufacturers use them?

all the time about synthetic oil, now all manufactures use synthetics as factory fill.
they are not high tension and wont reduce mpg and do not wear more than any other ring.

I don't know why you would make all those claims and not post up any evidence of it...