RED DYE DIESEL FUEL

Discussion in 'Diesel Additives, Oils, Lubricants, Fuel, etc.' started by CaptTom, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. CaptTom

    CaptTom Full Access Member

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    Hey Oilburners,

    I thought you might find this interesting, regarding red dye diesel. Use this info at your own peril, however, if caught using it, you may have a leg to stand on if you decide to fight the fines.... no guarantees implied, represented nor promised by yours truly:

    The EPA Requirements
    U.S. EPA regulations require “visible evidence of the presence of red dye” to identify high sulfur
    fuels when they leave the refinery. In practice, this requires refiners to add a level
    of red dye that is equivalent to no more than 0.75 pounds/1,000 bbl (ptb) (2.14 mg/L)
    of a solid Solvent Red 26 dye standard. Solvent Red 26 was chosen as the standard
    because it is a unique chemical available in pure form. Diesel fuels are actually dyed with
    liquid concentrates of Solvent Red 164 because this dye is more fuel soluble and less
    costly than the standard. Solvent Red 164 is a mixture of isomers that are very similar to
    Solvent Red 26, except the former incorporates hydrocarbon (alkyl) chains to increase its
    solubility in petroleum products.

    Any red dye observed in the fuel of a vehicle in on-road use triggers a measurement of the
    fuel’s sulfur content. Penalties are assessed based on the actual sulfur content of the fuel,
    rather than simply on the presence of dye.


    As of June 2012, only heating oil will require red dye for EPA purposes. By then,
    on-road, non-road, locomotive, and marine diesels will all be ULSD.



    We do not typically use heating oils in SoCal, so red dye's at the pump are for "off-road/commercial" use.

    Going through all the trouble with an inspector, who really knows nothing more than:"Write a ticket! Write a ticket! Write a ticket!" may be a PITA, then going to court to present the facts, potentially getting a fine anyway (We all know the courts have ceded to the government all of our rights, so expect no sympathies from a judge. They too are in the business of collecting fines from "The People"),but in case you end up in the situation, at least here is a summary of the goings on of Red Dye diesel.

    For those of you who like reading technical documentation, I'm sick and do so, here is a link from Chevron where the quote came from:

    http://www.chevronwithtechron.com/products/documents/Diesel_Fuel_Tech_Review.pdf

    Now, that said in relation to Red Dye and on/off road differences by the EPA, the IRS is not so hip to the trip if you're not paying the on-road taxes. Here is how the IRS may see it:

    The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) Requirements
    U.S. IRS regulations require that tax-exempt diesel fuels, both high-sulfur and low-sulfur,
    have a minimum level of a Solvent Red 164 dye that is spectrally equivalent to 3.9 ptb
    of the Solvent Red 26 dye standard. This level of dye is more than five times the amount
    required by the EPA regulations. The IRS contends that the high dye level is necessary to
    allow detection of tax evasion even after five-fold dilution of dyed fuel with undyed fuel.


    The IRS want 5 times the amount of dye required to color fuel, just so they can bust your fanny 5 tanks full later of non-red dye fuel!! Boy! Talk about deep convictions!

    So there you have Chevrons version of the rules. Do as you find fit, and at your own risk, but I thought it might be interesting for the non-traditional burners to get a better grasp on the goings on with red dye.

    I hope this is useful.
     
  2. SparkandFire

    SparkandFire We're drinking beer

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    Thanks alot for taking the time to put this together. There is alot of misinformation out there about red dyed fuel, and i think this helps clear it up. ;Sweet

    When I got my '87 truck it had two full tanks of red fuel. On the advice of another member here I dosed it with about two gallons each tank with straight old WMO. Turned that red fuel blacker than black... :D

    Those were the sweetest two tanks of free fuel, nothing like driving around without spending your own coin to do so. :sly
     
  3. CaptTom

    CaptTom Full Access Member

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    Free fuel is always good fuel... well... as a fuel polisher, not always true, but in the spirit of free... definitely!!!
     
  4. Sw1tchfoot

    Sw1tchfoot Full Access Member

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    So according to the EPA the sulfur content matters and according to the IRS the dye matters?
     
  5. SparkandFire

    SparkandFire We're drinking beer

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    Exactly...

    The gubbbamint wants their taxes and the epa wants to keep the sulfur out. Out here in CA its close to 60 cents per gallon in taxes.
     
  6. CaptTom

    CaptTom Full Access Member

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    You're on the right track!

    I might have worded it this way though:" To the EPA the sulphur matters and to the IRS, the munnie matters" :eek:
     
  7. smolkin

    smolkin Stuck inside Mobile

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    A truly interesting read. I'm saving this for the biodiesel info, as it's hard to come by (what seems to be) an unbiased analysis and discussion.

    (For the record though, I will not further discuss general or personal bio production on this forum after the trolling I got last time.)
     
  8. Devon Harley

    Devon Harley Full Access Member

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    why cant we discuss bio diesel?
     
  9. CaptTom

    CaptTom Full Access Member

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    I'm sorry to hear about the trolling.

    Not to make you talk about it in depth though, I'd like to ask a couple of questions if you'd humor me for a second. I'm a bit of a bio-fan and proponent, although it has some short comings.

    1) Do you react your own? Or do you use straight veggie?

    2) If you react, are you having any "Black Honey" issues? And NO! I don't mean your girlfriend honey for anyone thinking along this vein.

    Thanx.

    I couldn't imagine anyone giving grief over veggie fuels. Not only are they viable, but contains neither red dye, nor actual taxes! In small quantities, it's considered "experimental" and has such a loop hole for garage blenders. I think it's over 100 gallons and you've magically become a "professional"... THEN, the IRS, EPA, business tax authority, fire department and all other agencies want a monetary piece of your hide!
     
  10. smolkin

    smolkin Stuck inside Mobile

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    Please do! Everyone should, and often! Just saying that I won't, not here. Not trying to derail this thread, either. But I think everyone should read this review, even if you skip over some stuff there's something for everyone.


    1) Yes; Not anymore, at all
    2) Not after, through much trial and error, I got the hang of it. And please don't tell my wife about Honey, let's just keep our little secret :love:

    Seriously, until the dusty-b#tthole crowd here dies off/ gets committed/ forgets how the interweb works that's all I'll say. PM me though, if you want.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  11. Devon Harley

    Devon Harley Full Access Member

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    I run bio and use peanut oil i also run soy bean veggi from the local Chineese hot spot mmmmm not gonna say how much we have at the moment it seems that I could get into a lil trouble lol.
     
  12. firehawk

    firehawk Full Access Member

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    I am curious as to how vigorous the testing is. My truck has over 300k on it (dad bought it new) and it has never once been dipped in Texas. For about half its life it has also had farm plates on it.
     
  13. CaptTom

    CaptTom Full Access Member

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    Farm plates are "usually" considered commercial/off-road, so "usually" not a problem. It is "usually" understood that farm trucks are primarily used on the ranch, but traverse the highway from time to time.

    As far as tank dipping, don't do dye if you cross from AZ, NV, OR, UT into Klownifornia... they do dip there. Not so much on the general highway, but then again, if you get ratted out, license plates reported and all.... well, you know.
     
  14. Devon Harley

    Devon Harley Full Access Member

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    If you have locking gas caps they need a warrent to dip the tank.:backoff
     
  15. SparkandFire

    SparkandFire We're drinking beer

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    The cop would say "that's fine, I will have your truck impounded and I will ask for a warrant, then we will dip your tank"

    This happened to my grandpa with his dodge diesel service truck. He didn't have locking caps, just a north woods mountain man mentality. He said to even open the fuel door without his consent is unlawful search. So the DOT cop told him "thats fine, I will impound your vehicle and then get a warrant" grandpa backed down at this point. His tanks were full of road legal fuel... LOL
     

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