ok then, BACK TO THE 1200hp IDI

[G.W BUFFALO]

not sure what happened to my thread, seems it turned into a ******* contest. being a new guy to the site and idi's, i did the wise thing and stayed out of it. but there was a little info posted in there on the engine, if anyone as more post it up. i realy think this info should all be posted in one place, it's odviusly something i woulnt try to copy even if i had the $$, just neet idi history. it's suprising to me that this engine was built back in the early 90's when diesals were still just what farmers bought becouse they didnt mind going half the speed of smell.

 

[tonkadoctor]

Sorry it turned out like it did. Never let someone drag you down to their level, they'll just beat you with experience.


While I'm not a big IDI fan, I would have loved to read more on that engine and how it was accomplished.

 

[icanfixall]

I would like to actually see this engine. A custom intake and an inline pump has my interest...

 

[hesutton]

It's gotta be out there somewhere........ surely at least some parts or more photos. Too bad we didn't get to go to Hypermax at the Ill. Rally. I'm sure that would have been a big part of the Q & A during the tour.

Heath

 

[joe f350]

has any one called hyper max up and asked for info and pics about the 1200 hp idi

 

[SparkandFire]

It's really unfortunate that Max Lagod is no longer with us.

I think everyone here knows that the structural core of our engines can handle ungodly horsepower. The 7.3 powerstroke does all the time, and structurally these engines are very similar.

Obviously the big limitations are getting the air into the cylinder and getting enough fuel in there. I may be wrong here, but isn't there a big difference between the DI and IDI engines in respect to the combustable volume of air/fuel in the combustion chamber? I mean, the IDI engine has a portion of the combustion take place within the prechamber before exiting to the main chamber. It seems that because all the combustion gas flow has to pass through that tiny hole in the prechamber, it stands to reason that the gas gets slowed down significantly in transit, or that it loses a portion of heat (energy) in the process.

When you compare IDI to DI engines, the DI engines have a domed piston to evenly distribute the combustion force over the face of the piston. In comparison the IDI engine has the combustion gas contact the piston on one side, where the ricardo chambers try and distribute the force over a wider area on the piston.

It all comes down to fuel atomization. That's why the newer DI rigs run such high injection pressures, that way the fuel atomizes fully the very instant it's injected. The prechamber makes it unnecissary for high injection pressures because it creates very turbulent air to atomize the fuel durring injection. I've wondered about how modifying the prechamber to open the throat up, along with higher injection pressures and injectors with a better atomization and flow pattern might be the secret mix for making a fire-breathing IDI. I wonder if that may be what Max did on that 1200 HP beast... Plus, removing material on the prechamber would have the added benefit of lowering the compression ratio.

Or am I completely nuts here???

 

[88beast]

when i first got on line for these trucks 300 hp was unheard of except for that
adapting a bosh pump isnt too bad or any other pump youll need a housing and gear a good machine shop can do the gear and the housing if laser or plasma cut will be accurate enough to work well
i looked into this and found guys to do it all but its not worth the money for suspected power when a 4 rotor pump can put out just as much fuel
so all being said a 4 rotor 350 plunger pump with a pump cam mod can do 600 hp easy with a good turbo setup and youll all see some good numbers once i get a pump made

the problem is the idi is too reliable few wanted to add power till recently so very few companies have aftermarket parts cause theres no market for a p pump conversion kit on an idi or anything like that even
and with some porting you can suport much larger numbers the precups hold us back a bit the flame ignites in the precup in most idis and then has to spread out into the cylinder but if you open up the precup right it will allow the motor to work more like a di and have combustion start in the cylinder nto the precup
this will mean youll have to change the timing radicly to account for a slightly later but faster detonation

atomization is not too critical in an idi it helps yes but you can build power other ways easier but with an open ed up precup it becomes crutial as the fuel needs to be atomized the best possible way so if you create a swiril then travel to the rest of the cylinder on ignition you will have a good atomization
now on atomization a higher pop and a good storng pump is about all id recemend going anything more you may as well adapt in a new injector
now if anyone has access to a media flow porting device you can have the injuctor internals opened up that will allow a larger amount of fuel
if you think about it that same pressure is in the line and the injector body so by opening up the passages itll allow more fuel to flow through the same nozel
now for a street idi compound youll need a stock and a hx40 size turbo (roughly) and a very good fuel system more than a stock pump at least 350 plungers and a 4 rotor would do wonders


and spark and fire not all the gas goes throgh the precup
the valves are actually outside the precup
but what happens is that the air inthe cylinder is all trying to be compressed into the precup so that will have the highest pressure and ignite first as this is also where the fuel is but there is more air in the prechamber than the cylinder itsself at tdc on the piston of choice so yes a very large portion of the air has to move out of the prechamber but with some lower cr mods this can be done even better by porting the prechamber properly giving the head a slight dish, this will allow a swiril effect in the cylinder and give a flow from cylinder to precup if done righto youll have detonition going out of the precup and the "fire" will spread up to the precup and down to the cylinder pushing against its self to move the piston
much more efficient

i hope that made sense to yall cause i just woke up

 

[88beast]

also you got to consider up till 99 the only aftermarket was tractor pull stuff which most of those guys make their own things till 99 these trucks were equal or slightly less than a psd which was the industry best at the time so thats why everyone says 300hp would make me happy thats right around a 2 year old truck where everyone wants to be but doesnt want the problems with new vehicles

so when the tractor pull guys stopped using these motors the parts stopped there was no need anymore
now as these motors get older they are getting phased out but we can bring that back

many cam makers have mad cams for these motors and if you talk to the right people you problly could get it made again

and other things like that the parts were there to do a lot but.... if youre not selling the parts why stock and make them

also something i realized most here are ok at sizing turbos etc. but if youre stuck with the stock setups banks ats etc. then you are not in the power range of this motor with the turbo

looking around i found its hard for me to find the perfect turbo based on a map we only use a portion or half of the map on most turbos and thats a problem but there are some out there so dont worry

 

[Dieselcrawler]

Wunder if he removed the precup altogether since it had 9.0-1 comp.

 

[88beast]

could have but i dout it he problly did a lot of porting
if you take the precup the whole way out youll have horrible porformance
the idi is designed around the precup if you take it out you have no switil in the prechamber then and the fuel does not atomize as well he problly opened them up good though the prechamber causes turblance same idea as going from a 4 inch exhaust to a 2 it causes higher pressure changes the direction of flow and causes a restriction how think if you put water driped into that exhaust with a high air flow going through it
it would be smaller droplets coming out the air would chop it up

or mist when you throw water at a fan idea is a similar concept

 

[Sw1tchfoot]

Here is the only picture I have ever seen.

You must be registered for see images attach

I wish there was more info on it, it may not have made 1200hp; but it is certainly making significantly more power than most people think the IDI can make..

Edit: Notice "Ed's Auto Conversions" in one picture, if someone was really desperate you could try contacting them to see if they know anything at all.

A quick google search brings up their location and number: http://bizsearch.morrisdailyherald.com/4134340/Eds-Auto-Conversion-Plano-IL

 

[flareside_thun]

Why not completely remove the precups and just set the injector pop pressure insanely high? A few guys are running 2300 psi pop on these injectors so why not? You remove the precup and have the injector/IP do the fuel atomization for you.

 

[88beast]

flareside youll need 3500 psi or more and a db2 cant do that too reiably or easily
plus the high pressure stuff is now multiple nozel and has excelent atomization due to 10000 psi pressures
you got to understand that with that much pressure if it was possible you would dump fuel in and flood the motor below 3000 rpm its just not practicle to adapt on a new fuel system
a p pump is about the same cost as a db2 so its not out of the question while a new pump can run half the cost of the new truck
youre best to open the precup hole some to a more circular shape then make it 1.5 times bigger and make the inside of the precup a 3d oval shape to give 2 crossflow areas with this hole as centered as you can
then dish the pistons to give a swiril efect in the cylinder too

 

[flareside_thun]

Did a littler bit of digging so far and came up with a forum that had a link to an article on the story...Keyword is HAD: Fortunately, someone quoted something that was said in the article. Allegedly, there's videos floating around of this truck. here's the quote,

"7.3 block sleeved down to 6.9, twin turbos @ 147 psi, diesel only with water injection, 6" girdle, 6000 rpm, double bolted flywheel with three hardened pins, C6 trans, Strange rear end. He said that the block flexes so much that they have to use rubber freeze plugs!"

 

[88beast]

also noone mentioned the air filter is 2, 3 inch tall 14 inch filters on top of each other
thats a lot of air flow thatll handle tripple the stock filter easy
you can see a stock size turbo and a larger hx60 size one they are ran in compound the best way to make excelent power

my theroy is with the right compound setup we could have bolt on 300 hp