Official test results of fuel inlet presure/timing

Agnem

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There was some debate a while back about the effects of fuel inlet presure on timing. I had negative experiences with a gas EFI pump, and others were running pumps greater than 7 PSI, but less than the estimated 50 PSI that the gasser pump was pushing. Somewhere in between... I said, must be a point at which the presure becomes a factor.

Soooo... I asked my pump wizard about this and he said he didn't know, because normally our pumps are calibrated at about 4 or 5 pounds inlet presure, and he never fooled with varying it. So I said next time I got a pump in your shop, try it and let me know. So, Todd C is getting a Baby Moose. It rebuilt up real nice, and before taking it off the test stand, Mr. Moose Pump ran a battery of tests. What he found was suprising to him, but not to me.

The pump was calibrated and tested between 4 and 5 PSI. The default timing curve was obtained, and the pump certified as being correct. Inlet presure was then slowly increased 1 PSI at a time, and the pump run through the full RPM range. By 9 PSI, the pump had gained a full 1 degree of advance at idle. By 18 PSI, the pump was fully saturated with what was esentially a static unchanging timing of about 12 degrees. There was a somewhat linear curve along the way, with idle producing a greater amount of advance than at 3300 RPM. So the net effect is that an increasing pump presure results in a shorter and shorter timing curve, until it is a flat line. This translates into a Holley Blue or Facet Duralift, taking 1 to 1 and a half degrees of timing variance away from your IP. Not a significant amount to be sure, but at least now you have the facts. Because of this discovery, I will now be asking pump customers what IP inlet presure they would like their pump calibrated to. We may be able to compensate slightly for the difference, but will not really be able to do anything about the decreased range internally available in the pump. At idle, inlet presure seems to have the most effect, as any change in presure upwards from 5 PSI caused some small shift even if it was only a quarter of a degree at a time.
 

RedTruck

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Thank you very much Mel for doing this. It seems like most folks suspect these results. It's nice to have conclusive evidence.

Paul
 

Mat J

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good to know iv got a carter on my pump is 7psi

so that would advance the timing a little?
 

91f2504x4

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I also noticed the same effect on my truck when running two holley reds in series for pumping WMO. I had one main holley red just after the selector valve and that drew from the front tank, but when I would switch to the rear tank (setup for WMO) it would turn on another holley red drawing from the rear tank and pushing it through the selector valve and into the front holley red. When I first set this up I was running diesel in both tanks and there was a noticeable difference in idle when switching from the front tank to the back tank. There was much more rattle to the engine from the increased fuel pressure, signifying a significant increase in fuel preasure. I could switch back and forth between tanks and the change in the sound of the engine was almost instant.
 

Agnem

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No that won't happen. Just the timing is affected. A rough way to remember it is about a 1 pound change results in about a quarter of a degree at idle.
 

Diesel JD

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1 or 2* advance at idle is not going to hurt anything, might even help you not burn as much fuel in heavy traffic. Where advanced timing can do some serious damage if it is out of specs is at high power levels If I understand Mel, the timing advance is a result of increased INLET pressure and at small increases above 5 psi has very little effect on timing above idle, that is if you were to measure the curve of inlet psi increase vs effect on timing, at small values above 4-5 it would be essentially no effect but as you get closer to 18 you'll get a flat curve of 12 *BTDC from idle all the way to the redline which would be too much timing. Maybe not enough to bust a piston but definitely would be eating glow plugs.
 

Agnem

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That's correct. And keep in mind he could only test up to 18 PSI. At 50 PSI, a DB2 will do really really weird things and the engine won't even run smoothly at all.
 

hesutton

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Any info on what fuel pressure below 3-4 psi will do. Will timing retard on the pump?

Heath
 

Agnem

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The inlet fuel pump in the IP will help keep the timing levels from falling off too badly, but the implication is that retarded timing may result since we can't get a feel for if the pump is being starved at all or not.
 
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