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New To Waste Oil

Discussion in 'BioDiesel & Alternative Fuels' started by 1983idi, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. 1983idi

    1983idi Registered User

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    Hi All.

    I've been doing a lot of research into alternative fuel sources since recent life events will be leaving me with a little less money I thought this would be an easy area to cut back costs in.

    I have done a lot of searching and I think I have a good idea of what I need to get set up. I want to do a pabiodiesel 55gph centrifuge. I already have a Mitsubishi ps pump and a 3hp 230v motor which should be more than enough to run the pump. I have a bunch of fittings laying around so that shouldn't be an issue either. If any of that doesn't sound like a good idea let me know tho. Remember cheap is my main goal. Also about 70% of what I'm cleaning is ISO 46 hydraulic oil and 30% will be oil and maybe a tiny bit of art and gear oil. Engine is a 6.9 IDI

    So where I had my biggest question was heating and de-watering the waste oil. How hot should I get it and how hot is unsafe? Guys say they use dryer heating elements and just run the centrifuges for 18-24 hours so it's safe to leave the heater plugged in the whole time?

    Second question was the 2 drum or single set up. 2 barrel seems more efficient but would also have to be run and drained back into the original drum so it could not stay running overnight? I'm sure there isn't a direct answer as to which way is better but I'm thinking for the pure interest of cost the double is better since all the oil in a 55 gallon drum gets filtered every hour and probably doesn't have to run for as long?

    Thanks for any help guys

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  2. chillman88

    chillman88 Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Can't answer your heating question. I'm just starting myself. My plan is to run it through a single barrel setup for several hours and then move the centrifuge to a second barrel for storage. My thought has been the single barrel will filter most of it and by running the fuge to the second barrel it will make sure everything that gets to the second barrel is clean.

    I plan on running the first barrel until the fuge no longer needs to be cleaned, therefore implying that the oil should be pretty clean before I transfer it to the second.
     
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  3. u2slow

    u2slow Plan B

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    Thumbing through an Acklands/Grainger catalog, you will find heating elements for engines... coolant heaters, oil heaters, battery warmers, etc. I'm quite sure the oil heaters are lower wattage (prevent cooking) and have a special coating to prevent breakdown in oil.

    I wonder if the element from one of those oil-filled radiator-style space heaters could be re-purposed?

    Heat will cause water to separate from the oil. Easy to drain off the bottom of a tank. Another reason not to draw suction off the very bottom of a tank.

    My WMO setup is primitive. I added a primary suction-side water separator filter on the truck. And I try to collect my old oil 'cleanly'. I may pour it through a sock filter if I think its extra dirty/contaminated.

    The gallon of 'silver paint' I drained out of my dying 5-speed last week... not gonna chance it for fuel. o_O
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  4. Mt_Man

    Mt_Man Registered User

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    Sounds like you got it pretty well figured out. What is key is what works for you or what will work for you. :)
    I found this to be very helpful. You probably found this in your research.

    https://usfiltermaxx.com/en/content/9-make-black-diesel

    Gravity can help a lot. I let most of my stuff settle for a long time(weeks to years on some stuff) and suck off the top. Should get most of the water out unless it emolsified or desolved. I have heard hydraulic oil doesn't work very well, but have no personal experience. So let us know what you think.

    I really like my absolute centrifuge (company no longer around) single pass with heater. Never regretted the purchase. I don't use the heater cause it stopped working. I just pre-thin and slow it down and it still works great. It only has a 110v 1/3hp motor so it is cheap on electricity. I have never regretted the purchase. Single pass centrifuge is nice cause one knows that it all passes through and nothing can get missed like in a one barrel recirculating pressure centrifuge. Although it can miss if it's to fast a flow rate or not cleaning enough. And little to go wrong using gravity to feed it. I put a low spot in my feed hose and drain so I could pull water out that made it into my dirty tote.

    With this setup I have never had an issue with my truck fuel systems. Knock on wood haha

    I would vote for the two barrel setup. If you pump it back into the first you run the risk of stirring up what settled out and contaminating the cleaned oil. Maybe a three barrel system would be good. One to settle, one to first pass, and second pass? You thinking of move the pickup and centrifuge from one to another?

    I really want to get a second single pass centrifuge. To see if more comes out with them in series but out of budget unfortunately. Pabiodiesel looks to be the best design out there for ease of cleaning and operation. Found his videos on youtube to be helpful.

    My experience has been a good source of oil will be pretty dry. I always drain water off the bottom and do not to mess with milky stuff. I ran my heater at 160-180f for a long time. No need to boil off water like the wvo or biodiesel guys. Make sure to vent the container so moisture can evaporate off. A cheap heater would be a hot water element with a built in thermostat that can be adjusted. They build up with carbon and can burn out. Build a pipe and fittings around it right before your pump and insolate the lines should do the trick so you don't have to heat the whole thing. Mine feeds from the bottom so all the air get pushed out the top.
     
  5. austin92

    austin92 Full Access Member

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    I want to get into wmo fuel, it just seams so overwhelming. I’ve been saving wmo for a while, just need to figure out plumbing and containers. Please post any progress you make


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  6. 1983idi

    1983idi Registered User

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    Mt_man- when you say you drain the oil off the bottom I assume your talking about the bottom of the barrel and not the bottom of the centrifuge? Do you just let it sit for a few weeks and then drain it after it settles?

    My original plan was to draw oil from the very bottom but it seems the wmo community is split 50/50 on this issue. Some say draw from the very bottom and others say draw from a few inches off the bottom.

    I have done more looking into the single or double barrel setup and from what most say the double barrel doesn't save much time cleaning if any. I'll have to look into that myself tho and experiment as that doesn't seem correct. In a single barrel there's no seperation so the clean oil mixes back with dirty and that can't be right. A double would certainly pass the oil more evenly. And if you build some type of low oil level switch to shut it off when the barrel is empty that eliminates the risk of burning up the pump.

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  7. Mt_Man

    Mt_Man Registered User

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    https://usfiltermaxx.com/en/content/18-centrifuge-piping-schematic

    ptrap is a good idea.

    My tank setup is similar to this. Electric ball valve came with my centrifuge and great for when the power goes out kinda scenario. Cheap harbor freight digital light/wall timer works good to turn everything off after X hours of filtering. Interval dictated by how quickly the centrifuge is accumulating sludge and needs to be cleaned. I check each batch a few hours in then try to clean it every 12hrs. You get a feel for when you need to check after you try it for a bit. I can pm pictures if you want.

    1983idi, this kinda answers your question too hopefully.

    IMG_20190615_090836 (1).jpg


    I went with totes for the size, cheapness, and easy plumbing. I fill the dirty tote and go travel for work for a while come back and filter it. Months to a few weeks. This has caused a bunch of sludge to build up. Since I feed from the bottom I can get any water out before starting up, but then also the sludge can slug the system. Wish I could have a conical feed tank as a settling tank and drain off the sludge before centrifuging. I am going to move the pickup up about a 6"-12" with a bulk head fitting and leave the bottom valve/drain for getting rid of water and sludge. Just haven't gotten around to do it. This is why I suggest to sucking from the top and settling. Gravity does not work great sucking from the top. Need a floating pickup like they use in aviation storage tanks. When I pump out of the clean tote I suck from the top down and leave some at the bottom. After centrifuging more will settle out and build up on the bottom. I do not drain the dirty tote all the way either. It is flat bottomed and will pull big slugs of sludge with it as it drains the last out. Good idea with truck wmo tanks, too. Just encase you have some build up. I have made some mistakes (flow rate to fast) and had to refilter fuel and clean out the bottom of one of the clean totes. Everything comes apart for moving, cleaning, and test batches. Camlocks are great! Recently added a quality control sock filter at one micron as I fill things.
     
  8. Mt_Man

    Mt_Man Registered User

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    So I posted a sketch of my setup. I do feed off the bottom of my dirty tote but that is because I use gravity and do not want to mess with siphon but I do have to be cautious about sludge. Also allows me to drain water that get into the system. Drain wait, drain wait some more drain, flat so it takes a while for it to get most of it out. When I fill it it mixes some up the sludge and I let it settle back out.

    When I was getting into it that was the conclusion I came up with too. For any certainty it needs the filtered output put into a different container. Just thinking about it. Maybe you could set it up that you filter from you settling/collection container (keep it off the bottom) to a clean barrel then move the pickup and centrifuge to another barrel and filter into a final barrel. Should be easy to set up a float system. Wonder if you could use relay switch and pressure switch. Wine cork seems to hold up to oil okay. I try to keep things simple so less to go wrong.
    IMG_20190615_114413.jpg

    Hope this is helpful. Cheers

    Side note. I do a burn test on mystery oil to see if they will burn. Dip a piece of paper towel in and then try to light it. If it burns like that I figure it will burn in an engine. Also can tell by color of flame and smoke produced, before the towel starts to burn.
     
  9. janssen

    janssen Registered User

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    Hi all,
     
  10. janssen

    janssen Registered User

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    Hmm, Try again

    Hi all!

    Just thought I would put my 2 cents in so that you may all profit from my vast experience and wisdom /sarc off

    Ok so I have been doing this for quite a few years, started off just settling (long time - some years) & Filtering, then built a centrifuge (ran 15 minutes and got mad at it - pain in the ass)

    I wish I would have just started right in the first place.

    Disclaimer: I have a farm so oil storage long term is good.

    1. be picky on your oil - Oil is easy to come by - I used to get from farm equipment dealer, so 80/90 heavy oil etc.. now I am a princess and I just get oil from a single car shop - I pump out 900L tank every couple of months - Is all light oils, mostly synthetic and pretty clean.

    1.2 Don't play with emulsified oil (hydralic bad for this) not worth the effort, burn it in your barrel fire!

    2. Settle as long as you can, drain off the bottom to get the antifreeze out (always some...) don't throw it away ! Filter & reuse :) (Did I mention I was cheap)

    3. suck oil off the top into your feed tank

    4. run it through a centrifuge at 10 litres/hr - I don't use heat I just make w85 in the summer - I used a http://www.wvodesigns.com/raw-power-centrifuge.html.html and love it (worth EVERY PENNY). Seriously if you are going to do this don't go cheap on a centrifuge - will pay for itself so fast.... I do 1000Litre totes, so current price in canada 1.30/L, 1000L, $1300 first run - paid for centrifuge.

    5. Then after first run I mix in gas and pump back into primary tank and run again. Get lots of "GOOP" this run, no heavy solids though.

    Ready to use.

    Vehicle - I install a second fuel filter after the pump and before the normal filter - Use a very large filter so lots of surface space ~1micron. Run this at -50 al winter no problem. No preheating oil etc..



    Just
     
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  11. 1983idi

    1983idi Registered User

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    What filters do you use that are around 1 micron? I can only find 5 micron at the lowest I'd like to get my hands on some 1 micros

    Also on the hydraulic oil have you ever ran any? What I'm getting is from sealed systems used indoors and I have not noticed any water. My concern is how well the truck will burn it. I mean it's a petroleum based fluid so it should work but I'm curious as to how well it powers the truck. It seems like it would be better than wmo due to the fact it doesn't have any soot in it from being run in an engine and it also is thinner than oil so if I'm mixing oil and hydraulic fluid the hope is I don't have to use more than 5% RUG to thin it out since the hydraulic oil is thin already. And no soot will keep the truck from smoking.

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  12. bbjordan

    bbjordan Snow Monkey

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    Here's a video of my set up:


    There's a couple of other videos on my channel about my WMO system. I used an old clothes dryer heater to heat the oil and boil off the water. I had the oil as hot as 125C. Probably a lot hotter than it needs to be. The centrifuge seems to like oil hot. Hotter than 80C. Must have something to do with the viscosity.
     
  13. Mt_Man

    Mt_Man Registered User

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    I got a few sock filters from Utah biodiesel online. Very helpful. 1micron is what I got. He has some that are 98 percent efficient ones too. I found a housing on Craigslist for cheap. Have not used it much yet, but should work good. So far it looks really good coming out. But I can't see any difference from settled/centrifuged/settled vs settled/centrifuged/settled/filtered

    https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/bagfilters.php

    This is a cheaper way to go. If you centrifuge you should not go through filters very fast.
    Another option is cat fuel filters are usually around 2micron. Might be slow to pass through though. Not sure, but they have some big one. Probably cost prohibitive at that point. Sock filters can be used in just gravity feed too.

    Give the hydraulic a try blend it at low quantities and increase the concentration so you can see how it works and let us know. I have not ran any in my truck yet but read mixed reviews. Sounds like a clean source, worth a try! Right? Wmo has decreased my power at lower rpm but doesn't really bother me.

    Good info about the heating wmo bbjordan! Do you thin before centrifuging or after?
     
  14. bbjordan

    bbjordan Snow Monkey

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    I thin after centrifuging. The heat reduces the viscosity so it centrifuges well.
     

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