Mysterious Starter Behavior

[Tristan]

I have not had the accessory position functional in my truck. Last week when my truck starter engaged an began turning over the engine before the key position even engaged the glow plugs I decided it was time to get the ignition switch down the column replaced. I also have had a random loss of electrical that is brief, just enough for the stereo to restart and all other electrical to briefly pause. I have noticed a metallic squeal/grind when this happens. First thought was that the alternator bearings were going out and it was briefly locking up. Now I think it is the starter engaging a running motor. Yesterday I replaced the ignition switch. Now I have a working accessory position, but the starter weirdness hasn't changed. What do you guys think could cause this?



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[BrianX128]

I wonder if something in your ignition is triggering the fender solenoid to think you want the starter to spin.

Try taking the wire off from the fender solenoid that came from the ignition key and doing the old screwdriver jump start and see if it does it?

 

[Tristan]

I wonder if something in your ignition is triggering the fender solenoid to think you want the starter to spin.

Try taking the wire off from the fender solenoid that came from the ignition key and doing the old screwdriver jump start and see if it does it?

Brian, I am not sure I follow. What would this show?


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[BrianX128]

If your ignition doesn't tell the solenoid on the fender to try to start the truck but it still tries to spin you know the problem is from there out if you have that wire disconnected from the fender solenoid. If the weird behavior goes away but comes back if you connect it and start the truck from your ignition then you know you have something weird going on in your ignition area triggering the fender solenoid .

 

[Golden Helmet]

I wonder if something in your ignition is triggering the fender solenoid to think you want the starter to spin.

Try taking the wire off from the fender solenoid that came from the ignition key and doing the old screwdriver jump start and see if it does it?

The other way to do it would be to start the truck with the key, then pop the hood and pull the small wire off the relay. No sparks that way

Brian, I am not sure I follow. What would this show?

The small wire on the fender relay is the trigger wire that comes from your ignition switch. If you pull that wire off and your starter is still engaging on its own, you know it's not your ignition switch and your problem is somewhere else. But if you pull that wire and your starter stops engaging on its own, then that means something's wrong with your ignition switch or its related wiring.

Also, if you haven't already, make sure all your battery cables and terminals are on there tight and in good condition. Loose or broken battery cables can cause all kinds of intermittent annoyances.

edit: Brian beat me to it, not sure how I missed that post. Ahh well.

 

[Tristan]

Thanks guys, do you happen to remember what color the wire is?


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[BrianX128]

It should be on a small post by itself. You can test if it's the right one, if you take it off the solenoid and try to start the truck with the key it shouldn't let you.

 

[crash-harris]

It's the little one on top/center that just presses onto the terminal. No nut on it, unless that connector has broken off at some point and someone replaced it with a ring terminal. It's the only small one that's all by itself.

 

[Golden Helmet]

Thanks guys, do you happen to remember what color the wire is?


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Here's a pic for you from when I was replacing my relay. You can see the old vs the new (ignore the second small terminal on the new one, it's not used on diesels and Ford only sells one-size-fits-all replacements), and the two big wires and the small wire on the elbow connector.

 

[Tristan]

Perfect! That's the one I thought it was. Will give it a shot, thanks guys. I'll report back, just give me a few days. Busy week!


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[ReticulateSplines]

Any time you are going to jumper start the truck at that solenoid it is wise to make contact on a nut or a lug or anything but the threads of the post. Arcing on the threads will cause frustration if/when you replace that solenoid.

 

[Tristan]

I looked over all the easily visible wires to the starter itself and also the fender mounted relay. Nothing obviously causing the trouble. I have also taken it out for a good drive running some errands and here are the results.
On cold start up as I turned the key the starter engaged in the on position right before the glow plug position. Upon turning the key back and trying again I got wait to start without the starter engaging. After starting it up I unhooked the trigger wire on the relay and went for a drive. No odd behavior at all. After my first stop I hooked the trigger wire back up and just left it this time. After this it did nothing out of the ordinary. So I didn't really learn anything.
Is there a connection or place where the on circuit and start circuit might be shorting? Has anyone else ever had this happen?


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[Macrobb]

It's an '87, right? Pull the ignition switch from off the top side of the steering column(2x 1/2" nuts) and look at/replace it. I've had several just come apart(and do weird stuff), and it's a <$20 part, easy fix.

 

[Tristan]

It's an '87, right? Pull the ignition switch from off the top side of the steering column(2x 1/2" nuts) and look at/replace it. I've had several just come apart(and do weird stuff), and it's a <$20 part, easy fix.

That was the first thing I did, see earlier post. It gave me accessories back, but didn't change the odd starter engagement.


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[Macrobb]

Did you adjust the new switch correctly? Make sure that the positions of the key correspond with the right spots on the switch. Try adjusting it up or down a little and see if it changes.

It literally has to be either the ignition switch half engaging, or a short in the wire to the starter relay on the fender