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lightweight and smallish diesel for Fox Body Ford

Discussion in 'Diesel Conversion Forum' started by yldouright, Jan 11, 2019 at 7:42 PM.

  1. yldouright

    yldouright Registered User

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    Looking for junkyard candidates for a Ford Foxbody Diesel build. Prefer an inline 4 or block/V6 <3L and <400lbs. Outside of VW and MB, the only other model that comes to mind that might fit the criteria is the BMW M21. How about it guys, what else do you think might fit the spec?
     
  2. Comptech

    Comptech Full Access Member

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    I always thought one of the old GM v-6 Diesel's like they used in the Cierra in mid 80s.. and that bolt pattern will accept the small bolt pattern transmissions used in S10 etc.
     
  3. Comptech

    Comptech Full Access Member

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    We had one in the company car Fleet back in the day. I thought it ran very respectable. And then there is always a isuzu.. they make some pretty cool little motors
     
  4. austin92

    austin92 Full Access Member

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    Not sure the weight but there’s a guy out here that has a 3.3L 4cyl Cummins in his jeep Comanche. Said he really likes it. Found an adapter to mate it to an ax15 5 speed. Said it came out of a big wood chipper. Wish I knew more about it for you but it’s something to go off of.


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  5. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    If it were me I’d do a turbuler front with bbf ford mounts and put an idi in it.
     
  6. 79jasper

    79jasper Chickenhawk

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    What is your end goal?
    About every engine out there has been swapped into one at some point.

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  7. Kiwif150

    Kiwif150 Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    1KZ-TE Toyota or 2.5 WLT ford/mazda . QD32 TI Nissan or 4JG2 TI Isuzu would go really well in there
     
  8. yldouright

    yldouright Registered User

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    Thanks for the input guys, I'll be looking into all these models.

    @79jasper
    I'd like a mild, flat 360 ft/lb. torque curve and ~430whp ~6500rpm. I know this is unusual with diesels because of the long stroke but I might have a budget for mods depending on what I pay for the engine/donor. I'll be using a turbo.

    @Thewespaul
    I've always thought the IDI line was ill suited for what I wanted. Too heavy and too big but perhaps they have smaller stuff I don't know about. It's the reason why I didn't bite on the Cummins 2.8L. Any particular model you thought might work here?
     
  9. 79jasper

    79jasper Chickenhawk

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    For what you want, I would avoid any idi engine. Especially 6.9/7.3.
    With a diesel you don't need it to rev high like that. Is that because of the gearing? Or?
    I would be looking at vw/Audi tdi engines. Anywhere from the 4 cylinder up to the v12. BMW and Mercedes have a few as well.

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  10. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    You pretty much described a small block ford with a cam and heads with your power goals. You’re gonna have a hard time making 400+ hp out of any 4 cylinder diesel, so you will be looking at larger heavier engines to make that kind of power. 100 ft lbs of torque per cylinder is pretty doable without a huge investment, but 100 hp per cylinder is a lot in any diesel. I was referring to the 6.9 and 7.3 IDIs, they bolt right into place of a bbf and don’t weigh all that much more than them.
     
  11. Kiwif150

    Kiwif150 Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    If you don't mind computer controls and wiring then look into something like the range rover 3.0 v6 twin turbo diesels ..... 6500 rpm for a diesel is pretty hard to arrive at without spending lots of moolah.
    The Lion series of engines run from 2.7 hdi V6 up to the 4.4L tdi V8 and would be ideal for the lightweight fox body but as these are all ohc they are pretty wide ...... V6 lion/psa engine is around the same width as an idi.
    for power i'd look at the range rover sport 3.0 hdi v6 - i think you get those over there - they have 300hp + and 520 ft/lb tq out of the box before you start chipping them.
    The 2.7 hdi engines run in the Ford Territory here and they'll give a barra 4.0 six a good run for their money ..... just stay surfing that fat torque curve and try to keep the grin off your face rather than looking for ultimate revs.
    If you go for a small displacement diesel (Latest ranger has a 2.0 biturbo I4 that has 210hp/370 ft/lb) then you'll need to address trans options .....the more ratios you have the better you can keep it surfing in the torque range.
     
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  12. yldouright

    yldouright Registered User

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    @Kiwif150
    I think my money would be better spent on getting the higher revs than on upgrading my drivetrain. Yes, an ECU and programmable fuel delivery will probably be a requirement. So will a 16:1 mechanical compression with ~1.5 bar of boost. There are builds out there that manage this but where is the rev limitation with diesel? Is it the fuel burn rate, the mechanical compression requirement or just an exhaust bottleneck?

    @79jasper
    You hit the nail on the head. My drivetrain will not like torque above 450ft.lbs and I want to keep it as it is.

    @Thewespaul
    Yes, you're right but I make my own fuel so gas engines are out. See above for why I want to go small and high revving. Are there any diesel heads sold to fit gas engine short blocks? That's an option I haven't even looked at.
     
  13. Kiwif150

    Kiwif150 Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Why would you want to go for high revs rather than taking advantage of the high compression high torque nature of a diesel?

    I noticed that you said you made your own fuel ..... if you are running veg or wmo through a hdi engine it'll have to be scrupulously clean, consistent and with the correct viscosity. If you are talking late model common rail (hdi) then pressures can get up to and beyond 36000psi at the injector ...... inconsistency in your fuels viscosity is going to upset the pulse timing.

    Any late model diesel that i mentioned will bust your existing drivetrain limit of 450 ft/lb ..... your best bang for the buck in my opinion would be to stick to the diesels best feature of high torque and use gearing to keep the car surfing the torque curve.

    Maybe you would be better off building up a good 5.0 with high compression such as 13.5/1 and making ethanol to run in it ..... you'll get great torque levels , the rev range you want , still have something a little different and have the satisfaction of making your own fuel.

    Take a late model common rail diesel such as a Range Rover sport 3.0tdi for a drive and you'll see what i mean by "surfing the torque wave" as opposed to wringing the performance out of something by revving the snot out of it ....... late model multi speed auto behind one of those 3.0 tdi's in a light fox body will blow the doors off a lot more than you'd think. :):)
     
  14. yldouright

    yldouright Registered User

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    Kiwif150
    I know torque can get you there just like HP and more cheaply than spinning up high but the drivetrain needs to be up to the task and the driver needs a subtle foot. I think my goals are well suited to my needs. Ethanol may be an option but restaurants are bountiful in my area so biodiesel is my choice. I've got the fuel thing down now and can consistently get ASTM spec. If I get a bad batch, there's always kerosene to help unstick stuff :)
     
  15. Kiwif150

    Kiwif150 Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Well it will just come down to $$$ really ..... modifying a small diesel to become rev happy will come at a cost and reduced reliability especially if you are going common rail and veggie oil. Dropping a complete engine and trans package will likely give a better cost benefit than modifying whatever engine you've chosen to fit your existing transmission...... you're already wiring up ecus for the crd so using the trans just makes things easier.

    Is the end goal for economy (using the fuel you make) or for the "different" factor ?
     

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