Intermittent violent engine shaking, possible misfire.

[Stomper4x4]

Hi folks,

First post here. I did a ton of reading on this around here last evening, and got some ideas but I thought the pro's here might confirm for me.

About 8 months ago I bought an 89 F250 IDI with the ZF5. I've been slowly fixing her up and making it nice.

Anyhow, sometimes it has the ZF5 chatter but recently something new has popped up.

On start up, occasionally it feels like it has a misfire. It's a small one, but noticeable for about the first minute on warming up.

But yesterday after a drive, I pulled into the driveway and the engine, trans started violently shaking. Like a really bad misfire or bad mounts or something went way out of balance.

So I shut it down, restarted, and it was smooth as butter again.

It's the intermittent part that has me thrown off a bit. I have years of gas engine experience but this is my first diesel.

I'm suspecting a fuel delivery issue. I think air intrusion, bad motor mounts, or something out of balance wouldn't be intermittent.

Done so far since I've owned it:
All fluids changed.
New fuel filter and did the ATF soak thing.
new glow plugs and controller. OEM
I run Hot shot fuel additive.
A bunch of other things, but nothing engine related.

Before I got it the fuel return lines were changed. I think that is those plastic fittings with the rubber hoses going between them?
Also the injection pump is brand new and shiny, its the thing right on top and at the front of the block, with the fuel lines coming out of it.

I'm suspecting a bad injector, or one in the process of failing.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for the great forum and info you guys provide. I've learned a lot just browsing!

 

[Nero]

I think hot shot addative is more for heui injectors like a powerstroke to prevent stiction. Try a fuel cleaner for something older, like liqui moly diesel purge or standadyne addetive.

How was your exhaust smoke when this event occurred? Clear? Smokey?

 

[IDIBRONCO]

My money is on a bad dual mass flywheel (DMF). You probably hear a unusual rattle for a few seconds when you shut the engine off too. That's the two parts of the flywheel slamming back and forth as they come to a stop. When the flywheel is good, the springs between the two parts will keep them from doing this. As they wear, the springs will be compressed, often will break, and can even come out if bad enough.
I don't know if there's any new dual mass flywheels anymore. Most people switch to a single mass flywheel conversion kit (SMF). The one made by Luk is a popular one. The only issues with them is that the pilot and throw out bearings are said to be low quality these days. Buy some new Timken bearings and you'll be fine. I installed one in early 2006. I've had it in three vehicles, still have the original components, and it still works fine. That's my testimony and my recommendation for the Luk kit.

 

[Stomper4x4]

I think hot shot addative is more for heui injectors like a powerstroke to prevent stiction. Try a fuel cleaner for something older, like liqui moly diesel purge or standadyne addetive.

How was your exhaust smoke when this event occurred? Clear? Smokey?

I didn't notice any smoking at all. Though my focus wasn't on that at the time. It was "My stuff is exploding!" haha.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Stomper4x4]

My money is on a bad dual mass flywheel (DMF). You probably hear a unusual rattle for a few seconds when you shut the engine off too. That's the two parts of the flywheel slamming back and forth as they come to a stop. When the flywheel is good, the springs between the two parts will keep them from doing this. As they wear, the springs will be compressed, often will break, and can even come out if bad enough.
I don't know if there's any new dual mass flywheels anymore. Most people switch to a single mass flywheel conversion kit (SMF). The one made by Luk is a popular one. The only issues with them is that the pilot and throw out bearings are said to be low quality these days. Buy some new Timken bearings and you'll be fine. I installed one in early 2006. I've had it in three vehicles, still have the original components, and it still works fine. That's my testimony and my recommendation for the Luk kit.

Thanks for this. I hope it isn't that. I'm not sure if the original flywheel is still in there or not, or if its DMF or not. Maybe I can get a peek up in there and see?

It drives and shifts smooth so I wasn't focusing on that. But it very well could be.

It's that intermittend misfire at cold start up, and even with new glow plugs and warm temps it's a bit more cold blooded sometimes at start up than I'd think it should be, that has me wondering as well.

 

[Nero]

When I had my dmf, and it was starting to go out, it would make a rattle when pressing the clutch in and coasting to a stop. A sharp tap on the throttle always made it stop. Maybe try that next time it 'shakes itself apart' feeling.

 

[Stomper4x4]

When I had my dmf, and it was starting to go out, it would make a rattle when pressing the clutch in and coasting to a stop. A sharp tap on the throttle always made it stop. Maybe try that next time it 'shakes itself apart' feeling.

Sometimes it does something similar. It makes a rattle with the clutch in or out, in neutral, while idling. A blip makes it go away.

But the slight intermittent "miss" on cold start, and the violet shaking yesterday didn't change, clutch in or out. Also the blip didn't change the severe shaking either.

 

[DaveBen]

Stomper4x4 - Please add the details of your truck to your signature by going to your User Name in the black line above. Click go "Signature" and add your details of your truck. These details will show up on all your posts and stop us from asking "What year and model is your truck."

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Maybe I can get a peek up in there and see?

Yes you can. Remove the inspection cover from the transmission. A DMF has two parts. One part has the ring gear attached to it and is bolted to the crankshaft. The other part has the pressure plate bolted to it. If you can touch the pressure plate and rotate it by hand at all, the flywheel is bad. It's the easiest way to tell.

 

[Stomper4x4]

Yes you can. Remove the inspection cover from the transmission. A DMF has two parts. One part has the ring gear attached to it and is bolted to the crankshaft. The other part has the pressure plate bolted to it. If you can touch the pressure plate and rotate it by hand at all, the flywheel is bad. It's the easiest way to tell.

Fantastic thanks!

I appreciate everyone's help so far!

 

[Stomper4x4]

Yes you can. Remove the inspection cover from the transmission. A DMF has two parts. One part has the ring gear attached to it and is bolted to the crankshaft. The other part has the pressure plate bolted to it. If you can touch the pressure plate and rotate it by hand at all, the flywheel is bad. It's the easiest way to tell.

Hey @IDIBRONCO

So I opened up the inspection cover. I couldn't get it all the way out, the exhaust crossover is in the way.

But I was able to get some fingers on the pressure plate. I could feel about an inch, inch and a half of movement, while the gears on the flywheel were not moving at all.

I'm guessing this is exactly what you're talking about.

 

[Nero]

Rotational play? Yes that is bad.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

But I was able to get some fingers on the pressure plate. I could feel about an inch, inch and a half of movement, while the gears on the flywheel were not moving at all.

I'm guessing this is exactly what you're talking about.

That's it exactly. It's a bad flywheel. Not fun, but it's part of the flaws in the design. Nobody wants to change their flywheel, but sooner or later, it will probably have to be done unless it already has.
If you happen to have more than one issue, it may not take care of all of your symptoms, but you do have a path to follow now. I will be looking forward to the results.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I couldn't get it all the way out, the exhaust crossover is in the way.

I also forget about this part. I'm running the headers that were on the truck when I bought it so I don't have that crossover pipe there. Another thing that I do on my own trucks is to make a cut where the bolt goes over the starter. I make an angled cut big enough so that I can slip the cover up whit the starter in place. I understand that the engineers thought that was a good idea, but...engineers!

 

[Stomper4x4]

That's it exactly. It's a bad flywheel. Not fun, but it's part of the flaws in the design. Nobody wants to change their flywheel, but sooner or later, it will probably have to be done unless it already has.
If you happen to have more than one issue, it may not take care of all of your symptoms, but you do have a path to follow now. I will be looking forward to the results.

Well joy, lucky me haha. My drive is a hill too, that makes it fun.

And yes, engineers. At least we're not working on Chrysler's. Never again.....

Also @IDIBRONCO would you happen to have the part numbers for the timkin bearings? Or at least they are direct replacement for what I have in there, no alternate part with the clutch style change?

And this is the setup I need yes? https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4698030&cc=0&pt=1993&jsn=3

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