Injectors or timing?

[fordw60s]

Hey guys, been lurking for a while and reading a bunch but some things are hard to learn with out having the ability to learn from someone. I'm having a hard time figuring out if my issue us timing or injectors. I do not have much experience with diesals so I'm still learning.


The history of the truck is it is an '93 f350 with 120k on the odo. I got it with 84k in 2014 and it is all original till recently. My problems started when I hired a guy to change my glow plugs, reseal the injection gear cover, and replace the CDR. After I got it back I kept feeling a miss and it was running a higher temp. It was knocking way louder than before and I found a return line leaking so replaced it and found more leaking. So I parked it until I had good cover to work on it. It's been a year and a half since.

I finally got parts to replace the fuel pump, water pump, Thermostat, return fuel lines radiator hoses and idler pulleys. Now it wil have loud injectors at high idle (cold start) but will settle some once it warms up. Thought all was ok but drove it and I was basicly rolling coal and was sluggish.

Any thoughts on this? Once I get a chance I'll get a video of the engine running. I know this is a long post sorry. If yall think it is timing where do I get the stuff to time it now a days?

All I have is an induction timing light for Gas motors.
Thanks for any info.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

My first guess would be that the guy got your IP gear out of time. It's easy to do if you pull the gear housing off. There was several of us who bought timing meters off of some Ebay sellers a little while back. They are listed as being for Humvees, but those meters will work just fine with our engines. If you want to use a light, yours actually can be used with these meters even though it's for a gas engine.

 

[fordw60s]

My first guess would be that the guy got your IP gear out of time. It's easy to do if you pull the gear housing off. There was several of us who bought timing meters off of some Ebay sellers a little while back. They are listed as being for Humvees, but those meters will work just fine with our engines. If you want to use a light, yours actually can be used with these meters even though it's for a gas engine.

Is this the one y'all got? https://www.ebay.com/itm/291925919893?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

Does this sound legit of a company and unit that works?

 

[Big Bart]

Many have stated on this site that many mechanics lack the timing tools to time these properly and do so by ear or test driving.

When timed correctly your truck should have more clatter when cold which goes away pretty quick. But not run hot. Running hot can be caused because the timing is off.

With timing different from when you dropped off for repair, you may interpret a miss due to a change in timing. But if you feel a hard miss could be many things. But some common ones.
1) In this case a glow plug did not seal and is leaking compression. Loose, not sealing, or bad glow plug.
2) Loose or leaking injector line. (You already found one. If you have a miss at idle you can loosen the injector line at the injector to see which cylinder least effects the idle. That will be the one with some issue. Wear safety glasses as these lines are under pressure but small volumes.
3) Air intrusion on fuel line or return lines.
4) Bad or clogged injector.
5) IP pump is needing rebuild. As you stated it starts to go away pretty quick.

Likely related to his repair work. These trucks are old so parts only need a little bump or push to cause a failure.

Suggest you start with timing, then glow plugs, then fuel lines and filter, injector, and then return lines. If still a miss do a compression test, before you start on injectors and IP pump.

Often its frustrating when you first get a idi. You rarely get the service history and they are 25+ years old. But stick with it. You will work out the bugs and she will treat you right. This site has lots of DYI info.

 

[chillman88]

Is this the one y'all got? https://www.ebay.com/itm/291925919893?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

Does this sound legit of a company and unit that works?

That's the one I have. Haven't used it yet but it was brand new in the box.

 

[fordw60s]

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This is it running after I took it up the road a half mile or so and it was smoking. look at the return lines going to the pump and filter and no bubbles appear. So i would say the system should be sealed now.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

That's the one I have. Haven't used it yet but it was brand new in the box.

Yep. That's the same one I have too. It's a different seller, but the same meter. Funny, mine's in the same condition as yours is. In the box and unused as of now.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Does this sound legit of a company and unit that works?

If you decide that you want to use your gas engine timing light with this meter, the spark plug lead clamps onto the small, metal loop that's in the hollow space behind the display windows.

 

[fordw60s]

If you decide that you want to use your gas engine timing light with this meter, the spark plug lead clamps onto the small, metal loop that's in the hollow space behind the display windows.

That's good to know. Definitely leaning towards getting it just to be able to learn more about this motor and just be able to work on it.

What vendor did yall get yours from?

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Mine came from "rico_donoterase". The vendor probably doesn't matter much. Others have said that they had made an offer for less than the listed price and the offer had been taken. Before you worry about an extra $20 (for example), go to the DTI website and check out their price for the same meter. I didn't try to make a cheaper offer because I knew that it was about half the price of it from DTI so I was plenty happy. I did order the "correct" timing light from DTI, but that was before I realized that my cheap gas engine timing light would work.

 

[chillman88]

That's good to know. Definitely leaning towards getting it just to be able to learn more about this motor and just be able to work on it.

What vendor did yall get yours from?

When I said that's the one I have, I meant mine is from that same seller too! I offered less because why not if the option is there, worst they can say is no!

 

[fordw60s]

IDIBRONCO - Yeah I saw some for about double that price so I was just making sure and checking for scams. I did see that seller also for about $20 cheaper. Looks like he is in New Orleans.

Chillman88- copy that is good to know.

 

[fordw60s]

Pulled the trigger on getting the unit. Now just need to learn it and see what the timing is.

 

[Cubey]

When timed correctly your truck should have more clatter when cold which goes away pretty quick.

Yep, both my high mileage (100k+ or 200k+) F250 and low (75k) mileage RV are like that. When started in nippy weather, they are very clattery.

 

[Steven Sochalski]

I bought the same one a couple weeks ago. I offered 180, he countered 200, which I bought.

Prior to this, I replaced the injection pump and injectors and static timed it. I felt like it was too clattery and smokey. We have a local diesel shop that is a stanadyne rebuilder. One of the older guys listened to mine and with my description of the smoke from half to full throttle, said it needs to be advanced about a dimes width. I tried that and it ran worse.

I ended up not listening to their advice and retarded it about a dimes width past the static line and it ran much better and not much smoke. I still felt like it wasn't perfect, but good enough.

I bought this timing set and discovered my timing was still too advanced.

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I brought it down to 9.6, which is within 8 degrees plus or minus 2 degrees. I plan on bringing it lower, but doing it by myself thats as much as I could lean on a breaker and tighten the nut.

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I feel like there is a little more adjustment before having to loosen the lines at the pump. I plan on having my wife tighten the bolt and me pull on the breaker.

Tips for this unit:

Clean the timing hole on the crank with a wire gun barrel brush. A .38 or 9mm size works well.

Sand any paint/rust off the injection line. I wasn't getting a good read and I twisted the line clamp a bit and it made better contact and started reading.

My magnetic pickup probe was about .010" larger than the hole. I have a spare parts motor and tested that one as well, thinking mine was just gunked up. I used digital calipers to confirm. I ended up using my rotary tool and fine belt sander to gradually take a bit off and then test fit. I went slow and it took about 20 minutes and it fit really snug.

I laid the probe tip on the plate next to the hole and marked on the probe with a sharpee the line at the top of the hole, basically measuring depth and marking the probe so I inserted it deep enough.

The instructions say insert the probe and pull it out slightly, but mine never read doing it this way. It did read when inserted all the way. I'm guessing the tip just ran right above the surface of the pulley/dampener and that it was so small it didn't really have an issue slightly touching. The tip part is really small, like a mechanical pencil lead size.

It really is slightly difficult to use a breaker bar and tighten the nut if you need a little more force. If it's close, one hand works well, if not 2 people make it much easier.