I really need help with a weird no start

[JohnLeePettimore]

Does the glow plug system work? Was the block heater plugged in?

James

Yes, all new zd9s, new harness, bypassed the controller, I've confirmed each one gets voltage and little resistance with the button pressed. But to rule that out, i tried starting it without glow plugs and with ether (letting the plugs cool for a couple hours before spraying it) and i got the same result both ways.

 

[JohnLeePettimore]

I cant remember if this truck is manual or auto? If manual, drag it around, it will run.

I have seen several of these, and gm idi motors, that wouldnt quite go, but when dragged would start immediately. after that start normally, like they were flooded......

Unfortunately it's an auto, manual IDIs apparently just dont exist in my neck of the woods so i took what i could get.

 

[JohnLeePettimore]

Does the glow plug system work? Was the block heater plugged in?

James

Will it start with ether? You might be against that stuff but people blow up engines, ether doesn’t. If you disagree, tell me why old tractors and construction equipment have ether injection installed from the factory? I have sprayed ether into engines for a very long time, never gave me trouble. A diesel will ether lock before it blows up. If you put can after can of starting fluid in a diesel, and have somebody try to crank that ether locked son of a ***** while you stick a flamethrower down the intake, then maybe you’d blow it up. Or if you tried to use it as nitrous. Except on 2-stroke Detroits, you can use ether as nitrous on those, no ill affects in that case lol. Anyone who has blown up a diesel with ether firsthand, or seen it done in person, without the engine having had oiling issues or any other problems that would fail an engine by itself eventually. You tell me if ether and ether alone has actually blown up a diesel trying to start it.

So the thing with ether and diesel, there's two big points.
Working on semis all day, I've seen the auto ether injectors you're referring to, thing is those are computer controlled so only a little is injected. Some engines are built to take on a little.
Then there's the human error of using ether. I've seen people waste half a can trying to get a diesel started. Know what that does? Overheats the precups, breaks piston rings, and cauliflowers out the glow plugs.

Ether is fine. In moderation.

I have tried ether, seems to make no difference. I understand what ether can do if you use it incorrectly. I tried it with the glowplugs first, nothing. Then a couple hours later to redundantly make sure the plugs were cool, tried it with just ether and nothing. It smokes a very small amount, unlike usually when it starts it gives off a grayish smoke for about 20 seconds. The batteries are fully charged and if the starter was spinning any faster i think the whole truck would flip over. Sorry for all of the late responses, i didn't realize that some comments get hidden?

 

[Austin86250]

Sorry if this stuff has already been mentioned as I don’t feel like running though 5 pages

First thought, since either won’t even kick it off is your pump **** the bed or other fuel related issue , even if it has low compression ether usually makes it kick off unless it’s insanely far gone which you’d notice over time

Crack injector lines too check for fuel and start running down the line

Is your ip loose? I’ve heard it happening before when the ip was loose and the timing gets thrown off

For some reason I’ve never been able to get an idi to run off strait ether just starts knocking and ether locking so don’t be worried if yours won’t

 

[KansasIDI]

For some reason I’ve never been able to get an idi to run off strait ether just starts knocking and ether locking so don’t be worried if yours won’t

Interesting. When I first got my truck, the FSS was not getting good ground and I had it running on ether and once I thought it would go and I stopped spraying, it just stopped. Was running on just ether. I haven’t ether locked mine yet… and I always give it plenty too… idk stuff is weird

 

[Austin86250]

Interesting. When I first got my truck, the FSS was not getting good ground and I had it running on ether and once I thought it would go and I stopped spraying, it just stopped. Was running on just ether. I haven’t ether locked mine yet… and I always give it plenty too… idk stuff is weird

I heard that the idi design doesn’t respond well to ether for some reason,

 

[Rdnck84_03]

I heard that the idi design doesn’t respond well to ether for some reason,

I have noticed that. When I bought my dozer and was trying to get it t started after getting the engine freed up. It wouldn't do anything but smoke with ether until I finally got all the air purged out of everything.

It took me about 3 hours after work each night for 4 days of cranking on that thing before I finally got it to run.

James

 

[JohnLeePettimore]

Sorry if this stuff has already been mentioned as I don’t feel like running though 5 pages

First thought, since either won’t even kick it off is your pump **** the bed or other fuel related issue , even if it has low compression ether usually makes it kick off unless it’s insanely far gone which you’d notice over time

Crack injector lines too check for fuel and start running down the line

Is your ip loose? I’ve heard it happening before when the ip was loose and the timing gets thrown off

For some reason I’ve never been able to get an idi to run off strait ether just starts knocking and ether locking so don’t be worried if yours won’t

No worries on not reading, ill leave a TLDR here for others interested after i answer you. When i first got it the glow plugs didn't work so it got a quick squirt of ether and itd always light off with it. When it was really cold out yes it would knock loud enough to scare me into just driving my car. But itd knock for maybe the first 10 seconds and then go back to its normal clank. I've never checked to see if the IP is loose, I'll definitely do that. I do get fuel when i bleed the injector lines, but i can't confirm that it's enough or at the right time. Mechanical diesels are new to me, and naturally i would think that since it won't light off with ether, it's not a fuel problem. So this is interesting news to me that it still won't go if it had a fuel problem and you give it either. Being used to carbureted engines, won't start with carb clean = bad ignition or compression. Im always happy to learn, thank you. I'm honestly hoping it's the IP so i can just replace it and the injectors and not have to worry about it for a while.

 

[JohnLeePettimore]

Here's a little TLDR for those interested to cover the whole 5 pages:

The most important clue:
-Over the course of the last week of it running, it slowly lost power each time i drove it. Eventually the last day, it would go over 30mph, so i started to head back home just in case, and it wouldn't go over 15. Eventually i tried to make it up a hill, and the truck just stopped halfway up. The engine didn't shut off (automatic,) it just didn't make enough power to get over idle on this hill. I got home crawling at 5mph and it hasn't started since.

-Everything between and including the sending unit and filter head has been replaced. (Had cracked fuel lines, and a rotted sending unit so i just did everything)

-FSS confirmed working, and still works while cranking

-Batteries fully charged and charger plugged in for cranking. The engine spins over faster now than it ever did when it was in its running state, so I'm gonna rule out the starter.

-Replaced injector return lines with viton o-rings

-ELECTRIC fuel pump putting out 7 psi and 1/3 pint after 10 seconds

-Getting fuel out of injector lines, but idk if it's enough or timed right.

-Smokes very little when cranking over, usually it smokes quite a bit

-Glow plugs confirmed working, won't start with glow plugs or with ether (never used both at the same time for obvious reasons)

-Getting fuel to injection pump

I'm hoping it's the IP so I can just get it over with. Is there any way to test it without it running? By test i mean be absolutely certain that it's bad before i spend the money on it. I've read different methods for hot starts and while it's running, but not a definitive test without it running. Thanks for all y'all's help, it's much appreciated

 

[IDIBRONCO]

-Getting fuel out of injector lines, but idk if it's enough or timed right.

Naturally you can't time it without the engine running. As for the amount, it's hard to tell visually. The volume that is injected into the cylinder each time is pretty small. Usually, if there's fuel at the injectors, then it's enough. Even when installing a rebuilt pump and you're bleeding the lines, if you can see fuel start to trickle out at the injector, then it's enough. Maybe your best bet here to eliminate the IP is to try another known good one.
While your engine wouldn't start or would be very hard to start with low compression, that wouldn't cause it to lose power while driving. I was desperate one time to get a running engine in my Blue Truck so I swapped in one that had more cylinder wear than I've ever seen before. It had to be pull started, but once it was running, I couldn't tell a difference driving it down the highway (empty). It had no trouble holding highway speeds. Even though you're getting fuel to the injectors, I'm starting to believe that this may be an IP problem.

 

[Rdnck84_03]

Is there any way to put a pressure gauge on an injector line to see if it's making enough to pop the injector, without hurting the pump?

James

 

[JohnLeePettimore]

Naturally you can't time it without the engine running. As for the amount, it's hard to tell visually. The volume that is injected into the cylinder each time is pretty small. Usually, if there's fuel at the injectors, then it's enough. Even when installing a rebuilt pump and you're bleeding the lines, if you can see fuel start to trickle out at the injector, then it's enough. Maybe your best bet here to eliminate the IP is to try another known good one.
While your engine wouldn't start or would be very hard to start with low compression, that wouldn't cause it to lose power while driving. I was desperate one time to get a running engine in my Blue Truck so I swapped in one that had more cylinder wear than I've ever seen before. It had to be pull started, but once it was running, I couldn't tell a difference driving it down the highway (empty). It had no trouble holding highway speeds. Even though you're getting fuel to the injectors, I'm starting to believe that this may be an IP problem.

I don't have any known good IPs available to me, really I can't find anything IDI related at all near me. I'm at a point now where i might pull the IP and have it be tested. I've been trying everything else first because I don't have any timing equipment available to me so I can't put the pump back in. But I'll send it off to testing and I'll report back, hopefully they tell me it's bad because if it's not I am totally lost. I thank you and everyone for all the help.

 

[Bart F-350]

Hello JohnLeePettymore,

And? do you still have to walk?
or is there any new developments?

 

[Jesus Freak]

Hello JohnLeePettymore,

And? do you still have to walk?
or is there any new developments?

Man, I saw this and was like "OH GOODY, CLOSURE!!!", and then....... nothing. I looked and he hasn't logged in since the day after his last post! So yeah........he's out there....... probably bought a Prius......