1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Gutless and IP adjustments

Discussion in '6.9L IH & 7.3L IDI Diesels' started by ifrythings, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. ifrythings

    ifrythings Full Access Member

    Posts:
    514
    Likes Received:
    234
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Location:
    BC
    To start with I know what the problem is, I need a new IP that’s calibrated but I don’t have $1500 for a new one right now so I’m hoping I can tweak the current one I have a bit.

    A few details: timing is set @8 degrees @2000rpm pulse method, throttle goes to wot so the cable is good, new standyne G code injectors, new racor fuel filter, electric fuel pump (mite be a problem as I don’t have a way to check pressure under load), engine is a rebuilt 94 idit, ip is from my old 87 6.9 which was replaced at some point in its life, turned up 2 flats.

    Now a while ago I had to pull some of the pump apart to change a leaking throttle shaft seal which required all the governor linkages to be removed, I did carefully measure the guide stud and put it back as close as I could and same with the face cam for the light load advance. I have good power when the cold timing advance is on but it sounds like a Powerstroke and the timing at idle is 11 degrees with it on, I don’t want to start burning glowplug tips off by advancing base timing to much.

    So what I have noticed is the light load advance retards the timing, if I floor it without having enough rpm it looses all the diesel clack, doesn’t even puff grey or black and craws up slowly in speed. Did I grossly miss adjust the light load advance? Is the light load advance doing anything a 1/2-wot? Is the governor way out? I can’t get this to puff anything unless I almost stall it at take off or lug it at 1000 rpm in 3rd, wot at 1500 rpm in 4 doesn’t even haze which is why I’m hoping that I can do some adjustments to get this thing acting better till I can get a new ip.

    So besides a new pump is there anything I can try with this older pump to make it run better? I think I’m going to up the fuel a bit more and maybe play with the lite load advance cam a bit but any suggestions would be very helpful. Also fuel mileage is down right disgusting at 10m/g.
     
  2. The_Josh_Bear

    The_Josh_Bear Full Access Member

    Posts:
    545
    Likes Received:
    261
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Location:
    Western WA
    Hey brother:

    First things first, if you wonder about your epump then just grab a simple gasser vac/pressure gauge for $20 or whatever they run these days. That'll give you a vac gauge for brake issues and a 15psi gauge for fuel. I ran mine under the hood and attached it to a wiper arm with neodymium magnets for a few months and it worked great!

    I have an 9-11psi max Facet and it drops to 2-3psi under WOT and that changes my timing by at least 3*, or even more depending on what you read around here. So I'm with you on the e pump suspicions.

    The face cam is exactly as you referenced: it retards timing and where it sits in the throttle range denotes where it affects the timing, BUT WOT should not be affected.

    I think you would benefit from @Thewespaul 's thread, DB2 Timimg guide to start baseline tweaking.
    Most notably backing off the "torque screw" if your IP has one.

    What kind of PSI are you getting max? Amd at what RPM?
    Oh I see you have a J2 cam as well. Just thinking out loud, with so little smoke you may just have the "problem" of being able to burn whatever fuel you have and need to increase the fuel flats. For example my pump maxed out, and for a long time I just had a stock engine plus turbo. I could get black smoke under 1500rpms WOT but thats about it, maybe a little higher but it would clear up mostly after that.

    Wes has also mentioned many times that any pump will push more COLD fuel than hot, and this phenomenon is certainly exacerbated by a worn out pump, vs. a rebuilt/healthy one.
     
    lotzagoodstuff likes this.
  3. YATYAS44

    YATYAS44 Registered User

    Posts:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Location:
    Virginia
    Just had the same issue ater a pump replacement. Timed via pulse method to 9* BTDC, had no power. Turned fuel up 2 flats, nothing...another 2, smoke for days, back 1, perfect.

    Jon
     
  4. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

    Posts:
    6,807
    Likes Received:
    4,799
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2015
    Location:
    Bulverde, Texas
    Did it work well before you tore it apart? If so then you need to adjust the face plate, I’ll get you the specs for it. If that’s good then you guide screw maybe off a bit. Does it have a lot of rpm droop when you let off the throttle when it’s at higher rpms?
     
  5. ifrythings

    ifrythings Full Access Member

    Posts:
    514
    Likes Received:
    234
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Location:
    BC
    I do have a 0-30 psi gauge I’ll rig up this week and see if the fuel pressure is keeping up or not. This IP doesn’t have a torque screw so that’s not limiting anything there, as for boost I’m not sure yet, plan this week is to hook up the boost and pyro and rig up the fuel pressure gauge before turning to many adjustments on the IP.

    The big thing I notice is when the cold timing advance is on it runs like a raped ape but the moment it turns off it’s a turd, no smoke anytime with or without the cold timing advance.

    I do think I need more fuel for sure but at this moment I think the timing curve of the ip is messed up. When I get the pyro in I’ll turn up the Ip more.

    I’m not sure how well the pump was as it never ran good leaking with a stripped injector but and the injector pintle was trying to escape the injector

    F8DA9DA6-8FE0-46B9-B9BF-EF118823D78D.jpeg

    Here’s the pump that I have in it.

    F803D507-E209-4D60-853B-138C33EFD5E9.jpeg

    What do you mean by rpm droop?
     
  6. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

    Posts:
    6,807
    Likes Received:
    4,799
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2015
    Location:
    Bulverde, Texas
    Here’s the spec for the face cam adjustment 3365A596-CB8F-42AB-961E-06C10E2CF4A9.jpeg

    If you’ve got good power when advanced you’re probably too retarded with your timing. Get the face plate adjusted right and if it’s still under powered give it a few more degrees
     
    mu2bdriver likes this.
  7. The_Josh_Bear

    The_Josh_Bear Full Access Member

    Posts:
    545
    Likes Received:
    261
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Location:
    Western WA
    Good post, do you have the picture of figure 13b?
    I've no idea what they mean by "the middle of the low idle step"
     
    jetfly12 likes this.
  8. jetfly12

    jetfly12 Registered User

    Posts:
    49
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    I concur and wondering what it means myself, but seriously some good info though.
     
  9. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

    Posts:
    6,807
    Likes Received:
    4,799
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2015
    Location:
    Bulverde, Texas
    I’ve got it on the laptop at the shop, I’ll post it this afternoon.
     
    jetfly12 likes this.
  10. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

    Posts:
    6,807
    Likes Received:
    4,799
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2015
    Location:
    Bulverde, Texas
    Untitled4.png
     
    mu2bdriver likes this.
  11. ifrythings

    ifrythings Full Access Member

    Posts:
    514
    Likes Received:
    234
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Location:
    BC
    Finally got the truck back together and insured now, got the gauges hooked up now so I can see what I’m running. I just ran it to work which isn’t very far away but got some numbers I wasn’t expecting!

    4th gear (I think I was in 4th) 3/4 throttle doing about 70km/h (~45MPH) got 8psi boost and 750F EGT on flat ground. I was totally expecting 1-2 psi boost and high EGT’s.

    From the numbers I’m getting and what I read I should be making decent power but I’m having to down shift to 3rd on small hills just to keep up with traffic which doesn’t seem right.

    Next step is to check fuel pressure and recheck timing, would I be ahead to advance the timing a bit or play with the face cam a bit more? I should also be able to turn up the fuel a bit more I think.

    What do you guys think? Does this sound like a clapped out ip or just some adjustments needed?
     
  12. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

    Posts:
    6,807
    Likes Received:
    4,799
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2015
    Location:
    Bulverde, Texas
    I would say timing before anything else, advanced a bit sounds like the right way to go, with those egts you could probably add some fuel too.
     
  13. Macrobb

    Macrobb Full Access Member

    Posts:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    956
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2016
    Location:
    North Idaho
    Did you check fuel pressure? Make sure it's staying above 0 at WOT.
    (For reference, even with a RD2-110 oversized IP, I've seen 4 psi at idle, 3 at WOT with a stock mechanical lift pump. Much better regulation than from my dad's Duralift, which goes to 0(or below) at WOT)
     
    genscripter likes this.
  14. ifrythings

    ifrythings Full Access Member

    Posts:
    514
    Likes Received:
    234
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Location:
    BC
    I haven’t had a chance to check fuel pressure yet but it’s next on my list of things to check, I know at idle I have around 4-5 psi and reving it dropped down to 3 psi when I first installed the pump. It’s a spectrum premium inline pump that I forget what the specs and model number is but something around 30-50gph and 5-9 psi.

    On another note I took it up a decent hill in 4th throttle to the floor, got 8 psi boost and EGT slowly got up to 1000F before the hill ended. I’m thinking the waste gate needs to be adjusted as it seemed to hit a wall and not increase past 8 psi, it did tickle 9 psi on and off though. Thinking I need more fuel and try advancing the timing 2 degrees and see how it does but first to check fuel pressure.
     
  15. Macrobb

    Macrobb Full Access Member

    Posts:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    956
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2016
    Location:
    North Idaho
    Yeah, you won't know actual fuel pressure until you have a gauge you can read while under WOT going up a hill. Big difference in fuel between revving and max fuel usage under load.

    And no, I'd bet that it is nowhere near adequate enough. IDIs need a ton of fuel at WOT.
     

Share This Page