Epoxy primer recommendations?

laserjock

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I'm getting real close to cutting metal. The epoxy primer thing is new to me. Last time I did a truck it was a brand new thing so I haven't used it before. Is it all its cracked up to be and any recommendations as to brands or where to get it? I've had good luck with ppg products in the past but I'm open to whatever.
 

GOOSE

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Epoxy primer comes highly recommended from my friend who does plenty of auto body work. I am a paint novice so I am looking forward to seeing what is said here.
 

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I don't claim to be an expert, but have learned a lot on autobodystore.com forum. Epoxy primer has a pretty limited recoat window, usually two or three days. I think you may get up to a week with ppg top of the line stuff. It is not usually sandable. You need to add whatever surfacing primer you are going to use within the recoat window. You can go direct to your topcoat on parts that don't need to be primed/sanded. If epoxy is not topcoated within the recoat window, it should be scuffed and recoated with another coat of epoxy before another product is added. Epoxy can be used as a sealer between sanding primer and topcoat. When used as a sealer it is usually thinned with acetone. Whatever brand you go with, read the tech sheet and you will know the specifics. Like ppg shopline requires a 15 minute induction time after adding hardener before application. Autobodystore.com has a useful forum for learning about these products.
 

laserjock

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Thanks for the info. I didn't know about the recoat window on the stuff. I guess it makes sense because it is a two part epoxy essenitally. I resin and a catalyst. Hadn't thought about it becoming hard to sand but that makes sense as well. I'm just thinking that this will be the way to go because I'm not planning on blowing the entire cab apart and replacing all the metal in one sitting. I didn't want it to rust while it was taking me time to finish piecing the rest of it together. Time for some more research. Clearly times have changed since I did this last. I find that has happened in a lot of places. Take 10 years off to go to school and start a career and so many things have passed me by. Okay, I'm gonna go to the corner a cry a little now because I made myself feel old.:frustrate
 

junk

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TahoeTom made a lot of good points there on Epoxy Primer. I also am on Autobodystore.com in the forums. Name there is Junk also. Very good forum for autobody stuff. Also they have good pricing on autobody tools. He also sells materials, but I buy those local.

I myself have been having excellent results with Autobody masters Epoxy Primer 8411. You can use it as a Epoxy primer or sealer. I think of Epoxy primers as a glue. They glue the next coats of material to the base surface. Epoxy is good for moisture resistance. Epoxy doesn't seem to sand well. Most of the guys put Epoxy primer on and then during the recoat window will spray a Urethane Primer surfacer over that. Then you do your block sanding in the Urethane Primer surfacer. For Urethane Primer Surfacer I've been using Autobody mater 8443. I like the Autobody Master stuff as it has been a good value for me. The higher end products by PPG and Dupont may work better, but I've never felt these work poor. Autobody Masters stuff is also sold by Oreilly's under another brand. All the numbers match up though.

Now when it comes to paint color match and coverage I'm definitely a believer the better paints cover better and match better. PPG's cheaper Omni line I've used and found it didn't cover well and the paint match could be bad. Now on an overall paint job and in the right color it can be fine. PPG's DBC and DBU are higher end lines and work great. one's newer than the other, but I've used both. Dupont's cheaper nason line of paints I've really liked. I thought they covered well and were reasonably priced. I'm doing my crewcab paint in those. Dupon'ts higher end Chromabase paint is nice and i've shot a little of it. Some guys talk about it having coverage issues.

Clear coat. I use Dupont's nason clear coat. Goes on really nice for me and is reasonably priced. I've tried higher end clears and felt they did no better for me. Now there could be a longevity concern, but my daily driver I used this on 3 years ago is still fine.

Thanks,
Jeremy
 

laserjock

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Thanks so much. That's the kind of information I was looking for. From what I understand, the epoxy primer really serves as a plastic shell to seal up the metal in theory to prevent (slow down) rust. You really can never stop rust.... corrosion just happens. You can only slow it down. I've been thinking about my floor pan install and initially I was thinking that I would lap/flange the panels (dad has that tool) but then it occurs to me that the would be really hard to seal up and prevent rust at the welds. It would appear that seam welding (while more difficult) would be a better choice for longevity. Does that make sense?

As for the urethane primer as a sanding surface, I hadn't thought of using both. Makes a lot of sense.

Add paint and body to the list of things I am having to re-learn.
 

junk

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Biggest thing with paint and body to me is to use products that work well for you and stick with them. Every product works a little different. So I found these primers and I've stayed with them. I know how they react to different situations so i know how to fix mistakes.

I lap welded my floor patches in on my crewcab. I sprayed all the edges with weld through primer that would be lapped. Then I sealed all the edges with seam sealer to slow down moisture from getting in there. After that I epoxy primed and Acrylic Urethaned (industrial paint) the bottom before I sprayed lizard skin on.

Rust will happen we're all just trying to slow it down. Big thing is to protect the back of the panels also as good as you can. A lot of time rust comes from the back side.

If you have a welded patch that you need to put filler on to make look nice put a first coat of some fiberglass based filler. I use a product called "all-metal" and it's grey. They will have a clear hardener to them. After that you can use your typical polyester fillers. I like the rage products for normal fillers, but have heard good things about U-pol fillers and for a final filler I like their Dolphin glaze. A fiberglass based filler won't hold moisture and will help keep the repair intact longer if moisture does make it's way through from the back. Good filler is worth the money in my book as it normally spreads better and is easier to sand. Some fillers are absolutely miserable to sand. They get too hard.
 

laserjock

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That sounds like a reasonable regiment for the lap welds. I just don't want to do this again in a couple years. The cab corners I suspect will be the hardest to get to the back side. I may cut some holes on the inside just to be able to spray something in there. Friend of mine is doing a early porshe and we have been painting all the undercarriage stuff with the black implement paint from TSC. It has the hardener along with it and the primer claims to be rust control although it is a single stage primer. That stuff gets nice and hard as it cures out. It actually looks very similar to the original chassis black that came on the car. I was thinking about sand blasting the undercarriage and painting it all with that stuff. You can even brush it on and it doesn't look too bad. I may experiment with butt welding the floor pan in. Its been a really long time and that's a much better place to practice than the cab corners... if it's ugly, well who cares. The carpet covers the inside and if anybody wants to crawl under and complain well then I got something for them. :backoff

Question for you as it seems you are going through or have just gone through this all, is it easier to replace the floor pan parts first or the rocker parts first because I'm going to have to do both. I haven't got into the rockers real serious yet but I can see the carpet from underneath on both sides near the rocker. Any thoughts?
 

laserjock

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Wow. Just hopped over there and did some reading. Those guys are brutal. It's one of those show your work for credit sites. Damn. Good information though once you cut through the angst.
 

junk

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I've never thought they've been too brutal to me. Some of the old timers that have been around a while really beat on each other though.

I didn't have to replace my outer rockers. Just the cab floor. I would tend to replace the Rocker first getting the cab square and door fitting well. then i would replace the inner floor pan and cab corners. Depending on how bad it is sometimes you may need to brace up what's left to get it square.
 

laserjock

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It had the feel of some of the residenters picking on each other... at least the hand full of threads I looked at. My rockers are not terrible. There are holes in them but not falling apart. The floor is a different story. Like I said, Fred Flintstoneing it especially on the drivers side where the rocker meets up. I am going to try real hard to get the carpet up and ***** the situation fully this weekend so I can get some panels ordered. I already have a new set of hinge pins and bushings to install. I thought it would be a good idea for the door to not be sagging while I was fitting the rockers. ;Sweet

Speaking of panels... I may have asked this a long time ago but other than like LMC or NPD any recommendations on where to or where to not get them from? LMC is just horrendous with the shipping charges. I was actually strongly considering trying Amazon for some things. They are a little higher on base price but most things are free shipping... no extra truck freight charge. $20 on top of the normal shipping for sending a piece of a floor pan.
 

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I've heard good things about Sherman sheet metal. They actually sell panels on Rockauto. I would check them out. I think DSLDogcatcher has used them with good luck. I wasnt' that bad so I fabricated all my panels.
 

laserjock

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I'll check them. Summit sells thier stuff too. Funny some of the pictures of the amazon parts are the same as the pictures on summits web site. Could be a coincidence. I may give the seller a call and find out who makes thier pannels.

The really sad thing is the parts truck I bought is an oklahoma truck with not a lick of rust on it but the body is just beat all to he!!. :rolleyes:

Thanks again for the advice and help.
 

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i used omni once and i didnt care for it. nason seemed to work pretty good. ive also used the dimension series (3rd dimension single stage and 4th dimension bc/cc) from sherwin williams and have had good results. The last vehicle I painted i used the kustom shop brand base/clear from tcpglobal.com and the newer shopline from PPG. The kustom shop stuff worked great, however the shopline (updated omni apparently) didnt cover for squat. I had 3 coats of black and still had thin spots. the silver and kandy koncentrate from kustom shop works VERY well.... people who attended last years rally can attest to that..
 
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