E40D slow TC lockup

Oldred

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Any theories as to why my TC only locks up after it is hot (170deg) or so and 10 miles down the road. I have a quickshift 4 baumann controller and it is commanding lockup. No fault codes. I also did a line pressure test and I have 170psi going down the road. Line pressure doesn't change when the TC does finally lock up. My shift solenoid connector has some sign of atf and I have ordered a solenoid pack. Should I do anything else when I install the new pack and filter? I am hoping the solenoid pack will solve this
 

gnathv

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Your torque converter doesn’t lock until transmission fluid temperature reaches about 105 degrees.
 

david85

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Those controllers should have a way to set the temperature thresh hold to allow lockup (when cold, the TC will not lock, above a pre-programmed temperature, lockup is allowed, depending on driving conditions). I know my old TCS does. There should be a setting in the tuning software that controls TC Lockup conditions. Throttle setting, qualification delay, and temperature setting should all be there.

Are you live monitoring and know for sure the controller is trying to energize the lockup solenoid?
 

Oldred

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Those controllers should have a way to set the temperature thresh hold to allow lockup (when cold, the TC will not lock, above a pre-programmed temperature, lockup is allowed, depending on driving conditions). I know my old TCS does. There should be a setting in the tuning software that controls TC Lockup conditions. Throttle setting, qualification delay, and temperature setting should all be there.

Are you live monitoring and know for sure the controller is trying to energize the lockup solenoid?
Yes I am live monitoring. The controller has a screen on it and tells me when it is commanding TC lockup. I have checked the tuning software and it is set at 110 deg. The fluid temp is about 170 by the time it actually locks in.
 

gnathv

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The new solenoid pack may fix your problem. I think the transmission fluid temp sensor is built into the pack.
 

david85

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Are you seeing a temperature reading directly from the controller output? or from an auxiliary controller. Have you tried entering different temperature settings to see if there is a difference?

If you can't get it to respond differently, it may be time to call US Shift.
 

Oldred

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Are you seeing a temperature reading directly from the controller output? or from an auxiliary controller. Have you tried entering different temperature settings to see if there is a difference?

If you can't get it to respond differently, it may be time to call US Shift.
I am reading temp directly from the controller and confirming it with a gauge. The quickshift is commanding lockup. Just no lockup happening for about 10 miles. Once hot (170) it has no problem locking up.
 

Oldred

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I don't feel like it's a us shift issue. I am hoping the solenoid pack will cure it. When it arrives and I install it I will report back if it helped.
 

david85

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I see...

Well, that doesn't really sound like a solenoid problem then. Could be a sticking valve in the valve body. I've had transmission functions that worked when cold, then started to fail when at operating temperature as the oil viscosity dropped. But sounds different. I wonder if the cooler circuit might be partially blocked.

Do you know the history of the transmission? Any other details that might shed some light on this?
 

Oldred

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Ah, the history of this auto tragic. PO installed it as a used "low mileage" unit. Drove it for a while till it quit moving. PO parked it and I got hold of the truck after it sat for about 5 years. I found that the input shaft had split the aluminum planetary. I put in a steel planetary and new input shaft. While I was there I installed the newer high capacity pump assembly. I did not rebuild trans. Truck did well for about 30000 miles and I started having various issues. Erratic shifts ect. That's when I installed the stand alone us shift controller and all new wiring. That has cured most of my issues accept for this 1. TC being very slow to lockup. The solinod pack is the last electronic thing I haven't rebuilt or replaced. I am hoping it helps but I didn't know if there was something else I could check while the pan was down. If this doesn't work a transmission overhaul or replacement will be in order I guess.
 

david85

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Did you flush or replace the cooler?

Here's why I'm asking. Oil flows from the torque converter into the cooler. The ability to flow normally is what causes a high pressure drop across the clutch inside the torque converter. I didn't learn this until relatively recently, but there is no rubber seal for the lockup clutch. It relies on pressure drop across the clutch plate to achieve the clamping force. So there is always a small amount of leakage past the spines and the friction material. Unless of course, there is a crack in the plate, which does happen.

Anyway, If the cooler (low pressure side of the clutch) is partially blocked, then there may not be enough flow...until the oil warms up. Once the viscosity drops, flow through the cooler increases and you have a big enough pressure drop across the clutch to hold lockup. I'm probably grasping at straws here, but it's not easy to imagine a situation where higher temperature and lower viscosity would cause things to start working like this.

That being said, the fact that you didn't rebuild the transmission after the overdrive replacement means there could still be some shrapnel left that's playing havoc with the valve body. I'm not giving you crap for this, since you managed to get many thousands more miles out of the transmission even if this is the case (and we don't know that it is...).

If the solenoid body doesn't fix it (relatively easy to replace), and you've already addressed the cooler, I would almost suggest getting a different torque converter. Also inspect the pump valves while you have it apart, since the lockup valve is located there.
 

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Oldred

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Did you flush or replace the cooler?

Here's why I'm asking. Oil flows from the torque converter into the cooler. The ability to flow normally is what causes a high pressure drop across the clutch inside the torque converter. I didn't learn this until relatively recently, but there is no rubber seal for the lockup clutch. It relies on pressure drop across the clutch plate to achieve the clamping force. So there is always a small amount of leakage past the spines and the friction material. Unless of course, there is a crack in the plate, which does happen.

Anyway, If the cooler (low pressure side of the clutch) is partially blocked, then there may not be enough flow...until the oil warms up. Once the viscosity drops, flow through the cooler increases and you have a big enough pressure drop across the clutch to hold lockup. I'm probably grasping at straws here, but it's not easy to imagine a situation where higher temperature and lower viscosity would cause things to start working like this.

That being said, the fact that you didn't rebuild the transmission after the overdrive replacement means there could still be some shrapnel left that's playing havoc with the valve body. I'm not giving you crap for this, since you managed to get many thousands more miles out of the transmission even if this is the case (and we don't know that it is...).

If the solenoid body doesn't fix it (relatively easy to replace), and you've already addressed the cooler, I would almost suggest getting a different torque converter. Also inspect the pump valves while you have it apart, since the lockup valve is located there.
Yes I did flush the cooler. That's pretty neat that it uses a pressure drop to squeeze the lockup clutch. I will inspect my cooler lines and may flush again while I have the pan down. When I dragged the truck out of the bushes I intended to replace the trans. However when I pulled the transmission out, I on a whim pulled the torque converter. That's when I discovered the split planetary. So I put $200 into it to see what would happen and I have made it 40,000 miles so far. I figure if the solinod pack dosen't work that will be 1 less thing to replace when I have it rebuilt.
 

Oldred

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I found the old planetary. lol the transmission did nothing! when I first started with it.
 

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david85

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That’s the sort of trophy you hang on to! And this is also why Ford went to steel carriers with later diesel e4od/4r100 transmissions.
 
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