E350 GP Relay Delete

[divemaster5734]

At some point in this ex-Uhaul box trucks life the yellow wires feeding the GP relay contacts lost voltage, so someone took a red 8AWG MTW, attached it to the starter battery terminal, and put it on top of the 10 awg yellow wires ran in parallel that was OEM.
I tried tracing the yellows, but without cutting open the harness I'm not sure where they get power from.
Going through manuals hasn't been any help, as the schematic connection does not indicate the feeder tap location, which I assume is why that previous person just added the jumper to get it back on the road.
When I turn the key to on the GP relay starts cycling, the coil will hold open or close for about 1 second before changing state, I can watch the 12v go on and off at the relay output during this time, then after around 30 seconds it stops.
That tells me the internal time delay thermocouple inside the gp relay is *****.
I know I can just slap a 12v relay in somewhere and run the coil to a momentary N/O pushbutton to bypass, and probably tap the wait to start lamp off the contacts for visual confirmation the relay is in use.
I'd probably just tap the coil power off the line side contact with a little 5A inline fuse to protect the switch.
I was wondering if anyone else has already done a similar delete with a 50 amp N/O relay mounted in the same location as the GP relay?
Thanks

 

[divemaster5734]

Sheesh, they censored F U B A R

 

[Kdo58]

I use a warn winch solenoid, I figured a winch draws a lot of amperage it should do ok with glow plugs.

 

[u2slow]

I normally used any old ford starter solenoid.

 

[franklin2]

At some point in this ex-Uhaul box trucks life the yellow wires feeding the GP relay contacts lost voltage, so someone took a red 8AWG MTW, attached it to the starter battery terminal, and put it on top of the 10 awg yellow wires ran in parallel that was OEM.
I tried tracing the yellows, but without cutting open the harness I'm not sure where they get power from.
Going through manuals hasn't been any help, as the schematic connection does not indicate the feeder tap location, which I assume is why that previous person just added the jumper to get it back on the road.
When I turn the key to on the GP relay starts cycling, the coil will hold open or close for about 1 second before changing state, I can watch the 12v go on and off at the relay output during this time, then after around 30 seconds it stops.
That tells me the internal time delay thermocouple inside the gp relay is *****.
I know I can just slap a 12v relay in somewhere and run the coil to a momentary N/O pushbutton to bypass, and probably tap the wait to start lamp off the contacts for visual confirmation the relay is in use.
I'd probably just tap the coil power off the line side contact with a little 5A inline fuse to protect the switch.
I was wondering if anyone else has already done a similar delete with a 50 amp N/O relay mounted in the same location as the GP relay?
Thanks

What type of controller do you have? The one with the relay built in that is mounted at the rear of the engine? If that is the one, there is no need to buy another relay, you already have one there on the controller. All you have to do is pull the white wire off and tape it. This is the signal from the brain to activate the relay. So once you take that off and tape it, then put a new wire on the relay where the white wire was originally, and run this new wire into the cab to a pushbutton switch. Get one that is decent sized. Going to the other side of the switch will be a ground wire. Push the button, it grounds the terminal where the white wire used to be and it activates the relay you already have, which is most likely fine.

I do not know what setup you have, but the two yellow wires originally went to the starter solenoid battery connection. Each one had a fusible link.

 

[franklin2]

Here is the controller I am talking about.

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[Cubey]

It's very easy to use the stock 6.9 solenoid too. You have to feed it +12v via momentary switch instead of ground/negative. You don't even have to unhook the bad 6.9 controller.

85 E350. I just unhooked the purple wire and fed it (fused) +12v from the battery, via momentary switch.

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The 6.9 GP schematic:

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[XOLATEM]

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/standard-ignition/lighting---electrical/horns/horn-buttons/5ddd1b9e8a30/standard-ignition-horn-button/std0/hb7?pos=4

This is what I use...I had a spare one in my grab-bag of parts left over from the 80's...

Thank you for the wiring diagram @Cubey ...that one works for me, as well...now I can trace my wires if I need to and I have a better general understanding of the system.

You guys are great.

 

[mblaney]

ONLY install a white Roger's relay and don't look back. Lots of info here!

 

[divemaster5734]

What type of controller do you have? The one with the relay built in that is mounted at the rear of the engine? If that is the one, there is no need to buy another relay, you already have one there on the controller. All you have to do is pull the white wire off and tape it. This is the signal from the brain to activate the relay. So once you take that off and tape it, then put a new wire on the relay where the white wire was originally, and run this new wire into the cab to a pushbutton switch. Get one that is decent sized. Going to the other side of the switch will be a ground wire. Push the button, it grounds the terminal where the white wire used to be and it activates the relay you already have, which is most likely fine.

I do not know what setup you have, but the two yellow wires originally went to the starter solenoid battery connection. Each one had a fusible link.

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I like it.
Not only does it work perfectly, I don't need to burn a fuse holder.
Set the ground on the GP relay mount bolt just to keep everything in one place.

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Set the PB on the left side to leave it hot when cranking.
No need to spend money on a new relay or have to figure out new mounts.
Thanks again!
Now if I can just trace that darn stator wire to regulator without opening up harnesses...

 

[divemaster5734]

Found an ammeter schematic for electronic regulator diagram.

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Looks to me like the stator wire is actually hanging out in open air at the alternator.
Of course this was discovered AFTER pulling the entire harness from alt to reg, splitting it open to verify no broken wire hiding anywhere.
Think it has to be the regulator, found a resistance/continuity test procedure to verify haven't had a chance to try yet.
Still can't quite wrap my brain around running any kind of voltage generation without a stator connection.
Guessing they throttle the field voltage to regulate output.
Now just have to figure out what the colors are.
We used the field wire to control the head rig on cargo container cranes.
Just a 9VDC signal on a joystick to make a 1000hp. motor pick up 80,000lbs. container and sling around like nothing.

 

[franklin2]

No stator connection on the alternator is correct for a ammeter/guage cluster type wiring. On gas trucks they sometimes had a stator connection just to run the electric choke. Also notice in this configuration there is no connection on the I terminal of the regulator either.

On the idiot light trucks (a lot of those were f100's in the early 80's) all the terminals were used in the charging system.

 

[divemaster5734]

No stator connection on the alternator is correct for a ammeter/guage cluster type wiring. On gas trucks they sometimes had a stator connection just to run the electric choke. Also notice in this configuration there is no connection on the I terminal of the regulator either.

On the idiot light trucks (a lot of those were f100's in the early 80's) all the terminals were used in the charging system.

I had a laugh at myself over this issue.
All the years I've spent in the electrical field and never got into automotive electrical.
I've designed, engineered, and installed entire multistory commercial power distribution systems, worked on 15,000 volts, owned companies, and worked on then top secret military stuff.
And there I was, getting my **** kicked by a 34 year old truck..lol