Dually wheel differences?

aaklingler

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Are there differences in dually wheels between truck manufactures? Are they all hub centric? Is the center hole all the same size? I know the super duty are different.
 

oregon-mike

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The SuperDuty trucks went to metric so no go for sure on those....unless you're talking about the older Fsuperduty, but that's a 10 bolt right? My understanding is that it's not dually specific for the wheels, but that Ford/Chevy/Dodge have different diameters of the center hub. Some are hub centric, some aren't. Seems like I read that one could hog out the center of wheels for (dodge/chevy) and get them to work on our trucks but I can't recall now. I figure I'll just slap one on my truck to make sure it fits for sure if/when I ever get arountuit wrt to buying wheels.
 

MIDNIGHT RIDER

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Until Ford went and screwed things up with their new metric bolt-pattern, all 1-ton DRW wheels shared the same standard 8-on-6-1/2" bolt-circle, along with all 3/4-ton SRWs, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and International.

All 8-lug trailer wheels also share this pattern.

NOT all DRW wheels will interchange.

Some Ford and Dodge wheels are identical.

Chevys will never fit, or work properly, on any Dodge or Ford truck, as their method of centering and hub diameter is in a world of it's own, even though they have the standard 8-on-6-1/2" pattern.

Early Fords, up to 1980(I think), and Dodges to 1993, have "coined" wheels that are lug-centric, and will interchange from Ford to Dodge.

In about 1980, Ford went to hub-centric.

Lug-centric wheels can be used on a hub-centric truck, PROVIDED the conical lug-centric nuts are used.

Later model wheels are deeper dished than older wheels, in order to further seperate the rear tires; these later wheels will usually bottom against the springs of an earlier truck, before seating against the hub.

Long story short, even though the bolt-patterns are the same, there are numerous variables involved that can lead to un-safe conditions, when using wheels that are not specifically designed for the particular truck, regardless of what Bubba down at the pool-hall claims.
 

Full Monte

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My 1985 dually (Truck 1 in Sig) has lug-centric wheels, so the "1980" changeover is likely incorrect. Does anyone know when they changed over to hub-centric for sure?
 

ttman4

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Long story short, even though the bolt-patterns are the same, there are numerous variables involved that can lead to un-safe conditions, when using wheels that are not specifically designed for the particular truck, regardless of what Bubba down at the pool-hall claims.
Very, very true.
IIRC the Ford & Dodge SW & DW that are hub-centric have a center pilot hole of about 4 7/8" while Chev have about 4 1/2" or 4 5/8" or something like that.
Also some Chev stud holes are smaller that Ford IIRC.
If a smooth faced wheel is used then a "skirted" lug nut should be used, otherwise a lugnut ring with coined nuts should be used. However, I despise those rings & would rather use skirted nuts.

One my '90 CC DWR 350 it came with 215R85x16 IIRC, with smooth faced hub centric wheels & skirted nuts. I decided to go to 235R85x16 E, but had to go to deeper dished wheel (about 3/8"deeper x2= 3/4" more between duals.)
Thru the years of swapping & trading wheels etc, I found that my hubs were coined hubs....or so I thought. And I didn't ck far enough. Turned out, I think, rear was coined, front was smooth & hub-centric.
I traded for good set of deep dish coined wheels, dropped rig & wheels off at tire store for new set of tires & new coined nuts. Picked up rig that night. Coined wheels on smooth hubs don't work!
Ruined wheels & studs in about 6 blocks. Young kid on job 1-2 days had bo-booed.
 

Mr_Roboto

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My 1985 dually (Truck 1 in Sig) has lug-centric wheels, so the "1980" changeover is likely incorrect. Does anyone know when they changed over to hub-centric for sure?

The last year for the coined wheels with cone lugnuts was 1984, the first year for the wheels / lugnuts was 1985. http://www.southwestwheel.com/steeltruckwheels.htm

The above truck in question may have been built before the changeover. They would have run parts until they ran out and then changed over.

There are various hub diameters for dually wheels making interchange slim. I've had a couple of Fords with flat lugnut wheels mounted on older hubs. The hub is smaller than the wheel hole leading to a VERY eccentric running wheel unless you carefully line up the wheel by hand before tightening the lugnuts (I do not endorse this practice at all!)
 

Full Monte

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The last year for the coined wheels with cone lugnuts was 1984, the first year for the wheels / lugnuts was 1985. http://www.southwestwheel.com/steeltruckwheels.htm

The above truck in question may have been built before the changeover. They would have run parts until they ran out and then changed over.

There are various hub diameters for dually wheels making interchange slim. I've had a couple of Fords with flat lugnut wheels mounted on older hubs. The hub is smaller than the wheel hole leading to a VERY eccentric running wheel unless you carefully line up the wheel by hand before tightening the lugnuts (I do not endorse this practice at all!)

So, the only way to switch over to the flat nut/washers and peg-interlocked dually wheels is to change the front hub extensions and the rear axle? My rear axle is a "shorty", with the hub barely sticking out past the wheel. It was a Centurion conversion.
 

MIDNIGHT RIDER

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My rear axle is a "shorty", with the hub barely sticking out past the wheel. It was a Centurion conversion.

If you examine real close, you may have a standard SRW axle, with a closely machined adapter that pushes the inside wheel away from the leaf-spring.

Is your truck a DRW 1-ton chassis, or a converted SRW ??
 

Full Monte

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If you examine real close, you may have a standard SRW axle, with a closely machined adapter that pushes the inside wheel away from the leaf-spring.

Is your truck a DRW 1-ton chassis, or a converted SRW ??

I think it is a factory 1-ton, but my understanding is that Ford had Centurion do some kind of dually conversion to some of the trucks coming off the assembly line. I don't know it it was Ford's early excursion into making duallies, or if it was cheaper to do it that way. The dually fenders (dog houses) were definitely made by Centurion. They are fiberglass. The wheels are the "coined" variety, with each successive hole being an "innie" or an "outie". I have to be careful to line up innies on the outer wheel with outies on the inner wheels when mounting them.
 

Mr_Roboto

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So, the only way to switch over to the flat nut/washers and peg-interlocked dually wheels is to change the front hub extensions and the rear axle? My rear axle is a "shorty", with the hub barely sticking out past the wheel. It was a Centurion conversion.

Your truck was a factory SRW truck. (some years a 4x4 dually was not available factory). What you will find is Centurion used a spacer to move the mounting surface out to approximate the width of a dually axle.

You could have new spacers / adaptors made with the appropriate pilot diameter for 85+ dually wheels. Centurion may have appropriate parts available.

Another option is if you can find hub pilot wheels from another manufacturer that are the same or smaller than your current hub diameter, and have the holes machined to fit the hubs.
 

MIDNIGHT RIDER

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The wheels are the "coined" variety, with each successive hole being an "innie" or an "outie". I have to be careful to line up innies on the outer wheel with outies on the inner wheels when mounting them.


There should also be a corresponding recess at every other stud on the hub surface for the "coins" to allow the flat face of the wheel contact with the hub.
 

aaklingler

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What are the chances that alum. wheels possible off a 90's dodge would fit on my 92? I believe the wheels are lug centric, they have the lugs that are counter sunk and I believe the center hole is over 5". I think my truck my truck has the smooth hubs, it is hub centric with the skirted nuts.
 

Mr_Roboto

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What are the chances that alum. wheels possible off a 90's dodge would fit on my 92? I believe the wheels are lug centric, they have the lugs that are counter sunk and I believe the center hole is over 5". I think my truck my truck has the smooth hubs, it is hub centric with the skirted nuts.

Are we talking single or dual wheel?

If they are dual wheel, the hub has to fit tight to position the inside wheel.

Single wheel with conical lugnuts anything will fit on anything as long as the hub will clear the center hole.
 

MIDNIGHT RIDER

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What are the chances that alum. wheels possible off a 90's dodge would fit on my 92?


When you start talking aluminum wheels, you open a whole different can of worms.

Aluminum wheels are WAY thicker than steel wheels at the mounting surface.

Therefore, studs often come up WAY too short.

Use a steel wheel inside and aluminum wheel outside = stud will need to be long enough to allow for the added thickness AND the steel wheel and aluminum wheel will need be compatible with each other, i.e. no coined wheel against a smooth aluminum wheel.

Use two aluminum wheels together, inside and out = the studs better be a mile long and the wheels had better be compatible with the hub.

Why on earth anyone would want an :puke: aluminum wheel is beyond me.

I see so many fail so easily, especially on big trucks.

The bead lips on aluminum wheels are very delicate, being easily bent out of shape, then break off at the bend later.

They won't hold up at all to slippage, working back and forth against the studs; by the time you discover you have a problem, the stud-holes are long gone.

When an aluminum wheel gets to be a couple years old, the bead surface will develop a calcification/corrossion that pits the wheel deeply and causes a build-up that breaks the bead seal, causing un-repairable rim-leaks.

Being in the tire business, we fight this mess every day.:puke:

I also see many ruined DRW wheels that have been mounted on incompatible axles, or paired with non-compatible mates, usually ruining all the expensive studs and sometimes the hub.
 
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