Clearwater heads

[pontoonrob]

If you buy from this outfit in Florida,it will be a risky transaction. I bought a set of heads from them recently. I received the heads and took them to my machine shop for the install.Later in the day I received a call the shop saying the heads were junk. looks like they had installed used valves with a wrong angle!,nowhere close to the "3 angle valve" job I was told they would have. machine shop said the engine never would have started! Called Clearwater and "Bob" said I had voided the warranty by having the machine take them apart and check them!! he was mad and very rude.He finally agreed to have me return his junk. a month went by with no news so I called and first talked to Tim,he was surprised that this happened,said they rarely have problems(yea right).He then turned me over to"Bob".He told me they refunded my money for the heads. I told him his warranty said replacement heads, he said no and then said my orginal heads would not be returning to me also. He was extremely rude and was yelling so loud I could't even understand him.he then hung up on me! they did refund to my credit card,however I am out a set of heads for cores.So basically "Bob" the president of the co is nothing but a low class thief. beware! if I posted this in the wrong forum please move. rant over. geeze!

 

[IDIoit]

chitty!
but yes, you need to post this in the stickys
http://www.oilburners.net/threads/the-oilburners-hall-of-shame.19805/

 

[icanfixall]

Sue the ******* in small claims court. Just get a judgement against the business. No matter what happens.. "Bob" is going to lie to save his ass big time. Only reason they wont give you back your original heads is they repaired them and sold them or they junked them. You are entitled to AT LEAST the cost they advertise a core fee is.. Thanks for sharing this so EVERYONE knows to avoid this business

 

[pafixitman]

I dealt with them back in about '08. No issues. Times change though.

 

[hce]

If I had a nickel for every time a machinest pulled down an engine and said it should have never run. Slippery slope having another machinest open up the heads, they almost never like work not done by them. Clearwater has no idea whether your machinest is any good or just super picky. If you said junk or will not run you might as well thrown a brick through their front window, those are fighting words in the machinest world. You should have came up with a reason you had the heads pulled apart, something that would not have resulted in an immediate call to them, like I left the heads outside and there was a little rust I was concerned about. from there use terms like out of spec or loose, be prepared to back these with figures. I have ran clearwater heads, they work, not as nice as what the local machinest would do, but also I did not pay as much.
Clearwater should at least pay for cores.

 

[pafixitman]

I have ran clearwater heads, they work, not as nice as what the local machinest would do, but also I did not pay as much.

Exactly. For the $$ when I needed heads they could not be beat.

 

[icanfixall]

Junk does sound like a relative word to describe parts or machine work. About 12 years ago I purchased new offshore heads from dieselcast Welding. I took delivery and removed all the springs and valves to check the workmanship.. Guides were too loose for me and although they had new valves and springs. the other package parts were used. I really was not happy with what I saw but... the spring retainer was not a typical wear item so it was reused as was the rotator.

 

[Hydro-idi]

Ain't that the . You order a set of cylinder heads, send shop your cores, find out they are junk and now you don't have a pot to **** in. Very sorry to hear this has happened to you. You need to get your cores back. If he refuses, I would take him to small claims court if I were you.

 

[pontoonrob]

I may have been a little harsh with the word "junk", the machine where this engine is getting assembled has a excecellent reputation,, if he said they were not good enough to run I believe him. For $1000 I expected excellent work

 

[Macrobb]

Well... I have to say, it doesn't take much to get an IDI running. I had a valve floating around with like 1/8" of play in the guide(due to another issue), and despite that massive wear... the cylinder still fired! It definitely made a tick, and the exhaust gasses escaping through there made a hot-spot on the underside of the valve cover, but it still ran.

Also, I'm pretty sure you could always recess the valves more to give yourself a new seating surface, and a new set of brand new valves isn't that much money on Ebay.

The thing you /have/ to make sure of, however, is the /minimum/ recession. So a 'good' set of heads with new valves, if they aren't ground enough when matching them... your valves may not be seating far enough into the head.

This is an issue due to the close piston to valve clearances on IDIs... It doesn't take much to have the piston smack the valve on the way up.
If it's a light enough tap, the valve won't break or anything -- it's square to the piston. What will happen, however, is that it will slowly beat a depression into the piston, and quickly wear the valve guide out...

So.... Make sure your heads end up on the 'worn' side of the recession spec, if not out of it on the high side(extra clearance never hurt anything)..

 

[hce]

I may have been a little harsh with the word "junk", the machine where this engine is getting assembled has a excecellent reputation,, if he said they were not good enough to run I believe him. For $1000 I expected excellent work

Not trying to **** you off but your expectations for $1000 on a pair of back breaking heavy diesel heads that include free shipping anywhere in the U.S. are pretty high. Probably can subtract $200 to $250 from labor and parts on the head just for shipping and time spent preparing the head to ship. Now where at the price that is low for rebuilding much more run of the mill non diesel heads with good quality valves, seats, guides, springs, and retainers. If there using used oem valves there probably better then any replacement on the market. Your three angle valve job is kind of a misnomer with modern head machines. There valves are all ground to the same angle and margin, so a single cutter with multiple angles, or even a nice smooth radius can cut the seat in one shot. You no longer need the 3 angles to move where the seat contacts on the valve, and besides the single multiangle cutter flow better then the 3 angle, although by very small margins. Just head up I make my living requesting money from companies for failed equipment what I found out is if you want good customer service, you have to be a great customer. He is right you lost your warranty once the heads were opened up, they can no longer control the assembly process, the cleanliness, or assembly lube. The machinist or you should have contacted Clearwater before they were disassembled, when trying to make the warranty game pay one really has to adhere to the rules of the warranty. You have not stated anything that were actually wrong with the heads, were the guides loose or too tight, were the valves sunk in too far dropping compression and if so how much, did you calculate out how much the compression would drop? What about excessive leakage past the valve this could have been tested on the assemble head. So the angle was different on the valve then factory, but was it matched to the seat. Why exactly would they not run?

 

[pontoonrob]

I would be more upset if I had that engine all assembled and then have it ruin stuff because of faulty machine practiceses after trying to run it. Clearwater may mostly put out a good product , using google and their face book page shows I am not the only one to receive defective parts. When I get my machinists exact words as to the problem,I will inform you. ...It is totally my fault for not researching better first,they were not my first choice

 

[icanfixall]

SAd information being posted here. Our engines really don't REQUIRE a 3 angle valve grind. Its more for higher rpm engines. Its a nicety but not a must have. As far as your machinst telling you the workmanship was low grade or **** poor. I can't agree or disagree with that unless I miced it or saw it. Many times used parts are just as good as new parts.. but you had better tell me this in the first place. Finding used parts on a new piece is not correct. Telling you your core heads are not going back is wrong. In the end you got taken advantage of and it is an uphill battle from here. Time and distance are working against you. But showing up in their porch is not the right thing to do either. Yelling at you on the phone shows trouble dealing with this "guy"..

 

[bj_idi]

is dieselcast welding still selling heads? or where is the place to buy 7.3 heads these days?

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I'm pretty sure that Diesel Cast still sells them. They've been around for a long time.