Cheap way to clean out WMO even more (using water)

Black dawg

Registered User
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Posts
4,057
Reaction score
763
Location
sw mt
When I was doing the wmo thing(one year burned 50 barrels) on a day to day basis, it most definitely saved me a considerable amount of money........But used parts were always readily available, and I was able to do any repairs my self.

Took me a few years to get a process down that was low money/time investment vs fuel produced.
 

XOLATEM

Full Access Member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Posts
861
Reaction score
1,098
Location
Virginia... in the brambles
As dumb as this might sound, in the Laura Ingalls Wilder book called "Farmer boy"
dad gives a little talk about being a farmer
there's a lifestyle that you can live that makes you a LOT less dependant on "the man", and it's a LOT more satisfying in my opinion.

I don't think that it sounds dumb at all...I am going to read that book...because...I aspire to adopt the values and some of the skills of a farmer
Thank you Jesus Freak for bringing that to my attention and thank you also for the recognition.

I am glad to be here...
 
Last edited:

Bart F-350

Full Access Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2015
Posts
532
Reaction score
144
Location
FRANCE
Oh yes! I completely agree with you. but I might better be using this VW engine using WMO, since everything that I need for my 7.3IDI needs to come from the US, for every order of parts it needs a few weeks to arrive. even a fuel filter!
 

Bart F-350

Full Access Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2015
Posts
532
Reaction score
144
Location
FRANCE
I just reread this post, and thinking that engine oil is made to hold pollutions in suspension, I'm not really seeing how adding water "cleans" the WMO?
I know that adding gasoline (or Petrol for UK) could change WMO in a sense that the pollutions go out of suspension by changing the surface tension of the oil, iirc?
 

ut99dot1

Registered User
Joined
Jul 22, 2022
Posts
46
Reaction score
40
Location
earth
Hey, sorry for the late reply. Hope you are well.

For example, salt, sugar. These don't dissolve with oil or gasoline. Same with some leftovers from brake fluid / coolant , etc. It will create a suspension, true, these salts will float in the oil

However, if you mix water through it, these stuff dissolves into the water, and is "extracted" from the oil. Since the water doesnt mix with the oil, you can separate it, and throw the stuff away.

Some other stuff don't dissolve in either (e.g. metal flakes, sand), but you can get those out with a filter / fuge.
My experience is that coolant leftovers stay suspended into the oil, even after many rounds of filtration (probably the coolant particles are smaller than 1 micron). And they create a mess (filthy layer on the inside of my precombustion chamber). So with water theres a way to get them out.
 

ut99dot1

Registered User
Joined
Jul 22, 2022
Posts
46
Reaction score
40
Location
earth
After running nearly 3 years of WMO, an update:

The good:
- engine compression is still pristine (same as when I bought it).
- the turbo really helps with burning the oil cleanly. People can drive behind me on the highway without cursing
- because of the turbo it maintains power a lot better, even when the prechambers get clogged up

The bad:
- when idling (and thus no boost), a noticeable grey haze appears. Especially during night at stoplights with cars behind you, the smoke shows up due to their headlights
- hard starting, especially in winter
- fuel consumption is nearly 50% higher on WMO compared to normal diesel

The ugly:
- probably oil scrape rings are full of carbon. It loses/burns quite some oil now (1 quart per 500miles). But that includes all kinds of leaks too. Also lots of 'steam' from the oilcap (blowby or whatever)

I'll swap it soon with an ALH engine. Expected benefits:
- no pre-chambers, so I dont have to dig those out every time. Injector tips are easier to clean
- hard start should go away
- I expect the fuel consumption to be lower
- direct injection relies more on injection pressure than air pressure in the chamber to mix fuel with air, meaning I should theoretically also not have that grey haze anymore in idle
 
Last edited:

Jesus Freak

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2022
Posts
3,495
Reaction score
4,152
Location
Crestview, FL
After running nearly 3 years of WMO, an update:

The good:
- engine compression is still pristine (same as when I bought it).
- the turbo really helps with burning the oil cleanly. People can drive behind me on the highway without cursing
- because of the turbo it maintains power a lot better, even when the prechambers get clogged up

The bad:
- when idling (and thus no boost), a noticeable grey haze appears. Especially during night at stoplights with cars behind you, the smoke shows up due to their headlights
- hard starting, especially in winter
- fuel consumption is nearly 50% higher on WMO compared to normal diesel

The ugly:
- probably oil scrape rings are full of carbon. It loses/burns quite some oil now (1 quart per 500miles). But that includes all kinds of leaks too. Also lots of 'steam' from the oilcap (blowby or whatever)

I'll swap it soon with an ALH engine. Expected benefits:
- no pre-chambers, so I dont have to dig those out every time. Injector tips are easier to clean
- hard start should go away
- I expect the fuel consumption to be lower
- direct injection relies more on injection pressure than air pressure in the chamber to mix fuel with air, meaning I should theoretically also not have that grey haze anymore in idle
Great job @ut99dot1 in your research. My observations are basically the same. I don't have a turbo, but as long as my rings aren't sticking I get a really clean burn even running oil as heavy as I do. I don't think my fuel consumption is 50% more, honestly Ive never really calculated it but I don't think it's that bad.

The big issue is rings start sticking, then you start drinking oil from the crankcase, and then you start melting pistons. I've done that twice now. The first time I blamed not knowing the condition of the engine I had because it was a junk yard motor that I just threw in. The second engine was one I had "poor boy overhauled" (meaning that I cleaned it, honed the crap out of it, reringed and gasketed it.) I'm sure my clearances weren't correct but that engine ran smooth and smoke free for 10-11 months and then it started drinking oil from the crankcase. I'm about to start off on engine #3 and observe it, it's halfway between a junk yard engine and one I've gone through, but I've got high hopes (I'm the eternal optimist "always look on the bright side of life" ya know)

My thoughts are that if you're going to run on heavy oil, you gotta do a tank of diesel semi-regular, I don't know how regular, but regular. Maybe a 50/50 oil/diesel would be more friendly to rings, or absolutely consistently shutting down on diesel, I don't know.

WMO isn't for anyone that doesn't thrive in failure. I love it. I referred to the dually the other day as "the truck I love to hate".
If I had any sense I'd "LS swap" it, then I could buy parts and pieces off the shelf at O'Reilly's and I could bolt enough stuff to it that I could get 1200hp, and if my engine fell on my foot it would be a bruise not an amputation. Anyhoo, at some point I gotta update my WMO thread with those tidbits but I was reading your thing there @ut99dot1 and wanted to share. Enjoy earth, wherever you are!
 

ut99dot1

Registered User
Joined
Jul 22, 2022
Posts
46
Reaction score
40
Location
earth
Wow nice reading the extensive experience you have with these engines & WMO. Yeah it's been a great learning experience, the ring-sticking issues seems to be the last of them, after having dialed in pretty much everything else (filtration etc etc) haha.

I boroscoped the cylinders and they look pretty decent actually, so I was wondering if just cleaning out the gunk in the scrape rings would solve everything.
For example: some Toyotas had a design defect around that ring and burned lots of oil due to it;

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Reading through the comments makes me quite hopeful. Not vouching for that product (yet), but Ill try that B12 treatment on half of the cylinders before I engine swap, then once scrap the engine I'll take it apart and compare the treated cylinders with the untreated ones.

Looking forward to your updates! Enjoy & bless!

Edit:
Similar issue as this person although it isn't as drastic:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

(He did a re-ring and hone)
 
Last edited:

Jesus Freak

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2022
Posts
3,495
Reaction score
4,152
Location
Crestview, FL
Wow nice reading the extensive experience you have with these engines & WMO. Yeah it's been a great learning experience, the ring-sticking issues seems to be the last of them, after having dialed in pretty much everything else (filtration etc etc) haha.

I boroscoped the cylinders and they look pretty decent actually, so I was wondering if just cleaning out the gunk in the scrape rings would solve everything.
For example: some Toyotas had a design defect around that ring and burned lots of oil due to it;

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Reading through the comments makes me quite hopeful. Not vouching for that product (yet), but Ill try that B12 treatment on half of the cylinders before I engine swap, then once scrap the engine I'll take it apart and compare the treated cylinders with the untreated ones.

Looking forward to your updates! Enjoy & bless!

Edit:
Similar issue as this person although it isn't as drastic:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

(He did a re-ring and hone)
I can almost vouch for B12(emphasis on "almost"). I actually used a B12 soak on my current engine in the dually to bring it back to life, but that's another story.

In my tow truck I've been semi-consistatly shutting it down on clean diesel with B12 in it and appears to be smoking a lot less, but this is inconclusive right now because there's always 3-10 factors that I'm dealing with at one time. I certainly don't think B12 in your WMO will do anything, but if it's in clean diesel ot shut down or poured directly in the cylinders it might be doing something. My tow trucks engine is totally stock and I've never been inside of it. It has the IP and injectors in it that was in it when I got it 3yrs ago and all it's drank since I got it is WMO.

Don't stop experimenting @ut99dot1 !!! I have your portion of earth is treating you well, Godspeed.
 

ut99dot1

Registered User
Joined
Jul 22, 2022
Posts
46
Reaction score
40
Location
earth
Hi,

the tdi swap is still on-going (rebuilding the engine), but during the x-mas days I've been thinking on how to improve my WMO production.

1) Washing the WMO
Black dawg noted the positive effects of it, but there's a problem on what to do with all the contaminated water.

-> There's a process called "reverse osmosis" which concentrates the dirt in say 10% of the water, leaving you 90% of the water to re-use. The dirty water I'll hand in as old coolant.
Used devices are super cheap, I got an "Omnipure" for 25$ from a shrimp hobbyist.

2) Soot deposits - Carbon fouling up the cylinders
According to some scientific journal the average soot particle in used diesel oil is "0.12 to 0.27 μm," (https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/912344/)
I found some cheap sediment water filters which claims to filter down to 0.01 um.
Im skeptical, but if the filtered out oil comes less dark it will have worked

The setup I currently have:
1) Dirty WMO -> 5um filter -> "Clean wmo"

The setup I'm going to build is as follows:
1) Dirty WMO -> Triple filter (5, 1, 0.01 um) -> wash with water -> separate oil from water = clean WMO

2) dirty water : run it through the osmosis system, re-use the clean water.

Will keep you updated on the results!
 
Last edited:

Black dawg

Registered User
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Posts
4,057
Reaction score
763
Location
sw mt
Wow nice reading the extensive experience you have with these engines & WMO. Yeah it's been a great learning experience, the ring-sticking issues seems to be the last of them, after having dialed in pretty much everything else (filtration etc etc) haha.

I boroscoped the cylinders and they look pretty decent actually, so I was wondering if just cleaning out the gunk in the scrape rings would solve everything.
For example: some Toyotas had a design defect around that ring and burned lots of oil due to it;

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Reading through the comments makes me quite hopeful. Not vouching for that product (yet), but Ill try that B12 treatment on half of the cylinders before I engine swap, then once scrap the engine I'll take it apart and compare the treated cylinders with the untreated ones.

Looking forward to your updates! Enjoy & bless!

Edit:
Similar issue as this person although it isn't as drastic:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

(He did a re-ring and hone)
Do you have any pictures of what was causing the rings to stick?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
91,933
Posts
1,140,547
Members
24,755
Latest member
Jt64

Members online

Top