Because winter's coming and (and there's no forum for other idi fords)

Vern

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Ford's mighty mini diesel fuel pincher, when, post-oil embargo, things got serious on the economy side.

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"Compound turbo it", they say, nowadays.

But pertaining to the IH IDI, considering winter is coming, what a difference it would make cold starting, especially running unsupported, an actual timing advance mechanism would be. May be like the smoke puff limiter someone has also adapted that innovation for the db. Anyone?
 

RetiringColt

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I'm not real familiar with these engines. I thought that they were made by Perkins a division of Cat for Ford back in the 80's. I think 86 was the last year? Are you looking for a diagram/mechanical breakdown of the injection pump? In the video the pump looks like an older Bosch pump. Looks like you could use an actual glow plug controller and a working ignition switch.
 

Booyah45828

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But pertaining to the IH IDI, considering winter is coming, what a difference it would make cold starting, especially running unsupported, an actual timing advance mechanism would be. May be like the smoke puff limiter someone has also adapted that innovation for the db. Anyone?

I'm lost. What's your upgrade/idea here?

Our db2 pumps have a cold start solenoid on them that changes the timing. They also have a high idle solenoid that holds the throttle a little higher when cold too. Or are you looking to add those two items to your diesel ranger? I'm not familiar enough with the platform to know what one of those does and doesn't have.
 

chillman88

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That and you're supposed to hold the pedal down under 32° as well.
 

Vern

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I thought that they were made by Perkins a division of Cat for Ford back in the 80's
They were a Japanese license built Perkins 4.135 known in Mazda nomenclature as S2. ‘85 model year switched to Mitsubishi 4d55 and was discontinued in 87

the pump looks like an older Bosch pump. Looks like you could use an actual glow plug controller and a working ignition switch.
It is a Bosch VE knock-off by Diesel Kiki, again Japanese. I would like a tractor type controller without speed, temp and other sensors and two solenoid system. Ignition switch works fine, it’s the cold start advance cable that’s missing.
I'm lost. What's your upgrade/idea here?
The solenoid advances timing using a restriction of housing return so that when transfer pressures build the advance piston spins the rotor in the advance direction.
This pump mechanically advances the piston by acting on it with a cam or screw mechanism, so there is no lag time.
That and you're supposed to hold the pedal down under 32° as
I wonder how well it’s practiced.

I wonder if a apparatus like on the little ranger could be installed on a db2 to aid in cold starting. Or are such things already on some such pumps?
I’d like to have every assurance when walking away from it in the bush.
 

frankenwrench

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I have seen some rotory style db pumps on large 4cylinder residential house back up generators. They even say stanadyn on them. But as far as how useful they are I am unaware
 

chillman88

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wonder how well it’s practiced

Probably not very well. My only point being that will move the mechanical timing advance.

I certainly won't be giving you grief given your location, you're definitely farther north than I am. All I know is every time I've needed mine to start it has, so long as the glow plugs were functional and the batteries not dead (yes I have less than enjoyable stories about both lol). But... It almost never stays below zero here for more than a couple hours, and that's maybe a few days a year. We don't get negative double digits.
 

Vern

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I have seen some rotory style db pumps on large 4cylinder residential house back up generators. They even say stanadyn on them. But as far as how useful they are I am unaware
I'd like the feature on the ranger pump on the F250. I'd consider putting two of these VE style pumps in place of the db2, but probably not a db in place of a VE.
 

Booyah45828

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The solenoid advances timing using a restriction of housing return so that when transfer pressures build the advance piston spins the rotor in the advance direction.
This pump mechanically advances the piston by acting on it with a cam or screw mechanism, so there is no lag time.

I guess a mechanical advance could be deemed better, and faster acting, but does it need to be quick acting? Once it's on, it's on until the temp switch turns it off. IMO, as long as it reliably works, who cares if it's mechanical or hydraulic.
 

Booyah45828

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You guys up north definitely have the experience for cold.

Anytime I need to start when it's cold, I hold the plugs for 10 seconds, put the accelerator to the floor, and she fires up.

Granted, you need to have good plugs, good starting system, and a good fuel system. But you should have those things regardless if it's starting at 0 or 70.
 

Booyah45828

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If I had to deal with below 0, I think a espar or webasto would be almost a necessity. It sucks trying to get heat into a diesel when it's below freezing, I can only imagine what it's like below zero.
 

Vern

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Probably not very well. My only point being that will move the mechanical timing advance.

I certainly won't be giving you grief given your location, you're definitely farther north than I am. All I know is every time I've needed mine to start it has, so long as the glow plugs were functional and the batteries not dead (yes I have less than enjoyable stories about both lol). But... It almost never stays below zero here for more than a couple hours, and that's maybe a few days a year. We don't get negative double digits.

maybe some grief is in order for wanting this since as @nelstomlinson suggests the thing to do is to install a diesel heater and we're supposed to already have that. I'm not so sure we do so I appreciate you working through how it works here.

I gather the reason the accelerator is depressed during cold staring is that it increases fueling rate to build pressure to advance the cam ring more quickly. the light load "advance" might not have much impact on the cold advance, but seems it would act in the wrong way against the timing piston. I was wrong when I said
The solenoid advances timing using a restriction of housing return so that when transfer pressures build the advance piston spins the rotor in the advance direction.
This pump mechanically advances the piston by acting on it with a cam or screw mechanism, so there is no lag time.

It's that it vent's the housing pressure so that transfer pressure more easily pushes the advance piston. So I don't think we have a mechanical advance. You crank, it builds pressure, and advances the piston. Does it get a few degrees advance and how far into cranking?

My experience is the few degrees of advance makes a huge difference cold starting.
 

Randy Bush

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I have always like little diesel rigs. Had a Datsun 91 with a 6 cyl one , great car and also a Audi 4000. When we where in Costa Rica a number of years ago they had diesel cars like we have gas ones.
 

Booyah45828

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When pushing the pedal down at start up, it actually retards the timing. And you that's what you want actually, because with retarded timing, it allows the piston to increase the pressure and heat just that little bit more. When cranking, you don't want injection after TDC, but as close to TDC you can get. That's when the chamber will be the warmest giving you the best chance to fire off.

Once running, you want it more advanced to keep more heat in the engine vs blowing that heat out the exhaust.
 
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