Bandaid on a bullet wound

Big Bart

Tow&Slow
Joined
Dec 22, 2020
Posts
764
Reaction score
429
Location
Newport Beach, CA
'Cooler minds will prevail' has been some of the best advice on here. It took a day or two but im ready to get back at it. I do love working on the truck and as much as it stresses me out or generally ****** me off.

What quantity of oil in the intake would you consider a lot, or enough to be a leak? I have roughly a tablespoon at the intake of the turbo. I just assumed this was caused by blow by condensing there.

It never occured to me that the truck could be leaking and not have a puddle on the ground. I started paying extra attention after I read that and noticed tiny drops of oil where ever I drive... Im sure a good bit of my consumption is from that. I'll track it down and see where that leaves me.
Some suggestions

1) Change your oil and filter. Go with Delo and see how things go for the next 3,000 miles. You will know then what your consumption looks like. If it does not improve and is not from the turbo or engine seals, you can make a better decision. I loose about 2 qts every 3,000 miles for reference.
2) A tablespoon in and around the turbo would be suspect. Clean things up and see what happens at 500mi and 1,000 miles. I will let you or those who have a turbo share if the cdr valve is upstream or downstream of the turbo. If upstream (Between air cleaner and turbo.) then the blowby could likely be your cause of oil in the turbo housing. If downstream it should not be the reason and likely the turbo is leaking at the shaft seals. But clean the area up and see how long it takes the oil to reappear in the turbo housing. Its suspect and if the turbo is leaking could be a big part of your consumption.(It’s under pressure.)
3) When you park at night put a piece of cardboard under the engine and tranny. 3 drips when you park overnight is not going to be a quart of oil or atf every 100 miles, but a puddle every night would be causing a noticeable loss of oil. The card board will also help you zero in on where your leak is. Valve covers tend to be a very common leak on these trucks.
4) When engines sit for two years they can rust, corrode, or gum up. Often running them for 100-2,000 miles let’s them work it out. So the blow by might be temporary so give it some time. The hot shot may also have thinned the oil and is not helping with consumption.(But may help with stuck rings.). Delo has detergents too that can help.

As you have read oil consumption varies by owner. A quart every 500mi even I would live with. These engines are known for being simple, strong, and reliable. But also for drinking some oil along the way. I am optimistic a oil change will dramatically slow your consumption. I am hopeful in another 500-1,000 miles you start seeing an improvement as rings and other items clean up.
 

TNBrett

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2020
Posts
430
Reaction score
374
Location
Middle Tennessee
The CDR enters the intake path between the filter and the turbo. After the turbo would be pressurized. So, like any engine with the crankcase vapors routed to the intake, a dirty air filter can lead to increased oil consumption.

I would change the air filter that you said was dirty. Go ahead and let the hot shots do it’s thing. I still wouldn’t throw away $50 worth of oil and filter. Just change to a different oil with the next oil and filter change. The brand of oil may play a small role in your consumption, but it’s not the only thing.
 

lotzagoodstuff

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
May 19, 2007
Posts
2,554
Reaction score
487
Location
Maple Valley, WA
Once upon a time "here" there was an "auto rx" thread claims that Mercedes Benz snake oil fix for this...
I dunno might look it up.
I used AutoRX in a couple of different engines including my 7.3 IDI at 220K miles. Give this a read, and don't give up on your truck just yet: you've got a bunch of really good and willing folks who will help you out here on OBs.

 

LindstheMarine

Registered User
Joined
Sep 24, 2021
Posts
30
Reaction score
3
Location
83843
Some suggestions

1) Change your oil and filter. Go with Delo and see how things go for the next 3,000 miles. You will know then what your consumption looks like. If it does not improve and is not from the turbo or engine seals, you can make a better decision. I loose about 2 qts every 3,000 miles for reference.
2) A tablespoon in and around the turbo would be suspect. Clean things up and see what happens at 500mi and 1,000 miles. I will let you or those who have a turbo share if the cdr valve is upstream or downstream of the turbo. If upstream (Between air cleaner and turbo.) then the blowby could likely be your cause of oil in the turbo housing. If downstream it should not be the reason and likely the turbo is leaking at the shaft seals. But clean the area up and see how long it takes the oil to reappear in the turbo housing. Its suspect and if the turbo is leaking could be a big part of your consumption.(It’s under pressure.)
3) When you park at night put a piece of cardboard under the engine and tranny. 3 drips when you park overnight is not going to be a quart of oil or atf every 100 miles, but a puddle every night would be causing a noticeable loss of oil. The card board will also help you zero in on where your leak is. Valve covers tend to be a very common leak on these trucks.
4) When engines sit for two years they can rust, corrode, or gum up. Often running them for 100-2,000 miles let’s them work it out. So the blow by might be temporary so give it some time. The hot shot may also have thinned the oil and is not helping with consumption.(But may help with stuck rings.). Delo has detergents too that can help.

As you have read oil consumption varies by owner. A quart every 500mi even I would live with. These engines are known for being simple, strong, and reliable. But also for drinking some oil along the way. I am optimistic a oil change will dramatically slow your consumption. I am hopeful in another 500-1,000 miles you start seeing an improvement as rings and other items clean up
So I have two leak the first is in the front at the flywheel and the other I havent quite pinponted yet. Ive got quite a bit of oil dripping from the torque converter case. Oil is dripping from both sides of the case, however, there seems to be more on the passenger side. Where could this be comming from besides the rear main seal? I can see a very small amount of oil under the turbo as well. I'm not sure if this is realivent but maybe it means something to you. I found oil in the glow plug holes under the turbo. And I have noticed that I lose substantially more oil when I drive downhill.
 
Last edited:

gnathv

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Posts
784
Reaction score
313
Location
Athens, Al
It’s probably coming from the top of the engine. There is a drain hole at the rear passenger side of the intake manifold. Also a fuel leak can look like oil after it runs through all the grime. Find the leak up top and you may solve the bell housing problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clb

ih8minimumwage

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Posts
173
Reaction score
71
Location
Coeur d'Alene, ID
Sounds like you are from my neck of the woods then! That is a beautiful drive. Thats what I need to hear lol a sussess story. After your series of 'small chases' How much did you cut your oil consumption by?
That I am; Up the road in CdA currently. I'd lose a gallon of oil in 500 miles before fixing the leaks. Had a bad oil fill cap, oil coming out of the tach sensor wires, leaking rear main, seeping front main (still is) and I've resealed my IP housing a couple of times but it always starts leaking again. Rear main was my biggest issue leaving a dribble everywhere I went. Fixed it with a sleeve when I did my clutch. Still need to do valve stem seals, but just haven't had the time versus just topping the oil level off when I need to. Couldn't tell you the current oil usage at the moment since I haven't gone on any real drives since getting the ZF5 and turbo installed.
 

TNBrett

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2020
Posts
430
Reaction score
374
Location
Middle Tennessee
So I have two leak the first is in the front at the flywheel and the other I havent quite pinponted yet. Ive got quite a bit of oil dripping from the torque converter case. Oil is dripping from both sides of the case, however, there seems to be more on the passenger side. Where could this be comming from besides the rear main seal? I can see a very small amount of oil under the turbo as well. I'm not sure if this is realivent but maybe it means something to you. I found oil in the glow plug holes under the turbo. And I have noticed that I lose substantially more oil when I drive downhill.
Like @gnathv mentioned there is a plug in the Valley pan that drains out on the back side of the block. It looks like a rear main leak every time. If you want to confirm, pull the torque converter cover off and shine a light up between the flexplate and the back of the block. The flexplate will be oily if the rear main is leaking.
You must be registered for see images attach

This pictures shows the drain, its the smaller plug to the rear of the Turbo drain grommet(to the right in the pic). The likely culprits for an oil leak in this area are the olives on the turbo oil feed line, the turbo oil drain grommet (the larger opening in the above pic), or even the oil pressure switch.
You must be registered for see images attach

This pic shows the drain for the turbo, and the feed line that supplies oil to the turbo.
You must be registered for see images attach

This shows the other end of the oil feed line, and some new olives. The fittings are actually Parker Vibra-Lok. These are genuine Parker seals, (note the "p" and the green stripe). These are what I was able to find locally the other day. They are Buna-N. The Viton or Flouroelastomer ones are rated for higher temps and have a red stripe. The cheapest place I found them was ebay at $15 for 5 of them. the Parker part # is 60vlv-6, if you want to search for some. You should be able to change them out without pulling the turbo. If the turbo drain grommet is leaking, you'd have to pull the turbo to replace it.
 

LindstheMarine

Registered User
Joined
Sep 24, 2021
Posts
30
Reaction score
3
Location
83843
Like @gnathv mentioned there is a plug in the Valley pan that drains out on the back side of the block. It looks like a rear main leak every time. If you want to confirm, pull the torque converter cover off and shine a light up between the flexplate and the back of the block. The flexplate will be oily if the rear main is leaking.
You must be registered for see images attach

This pictures shows the drain, its the smaller plug to the rear of the Turbo drain grommet(to the right in the pic). The likely culprits for an oil leak in this area are the olives on the turbo oil feed line, the turbo oil drain grommet (the larger opening in the above pic), or even the oil pressure switch.
You must be registered for see images attach

This pic shows the drain for the turbo, and the feed line that supplies oil to the turbo.
You must be registered for see images attach

This shows the other end of the oil feed line, and some new olives. The fittings are actually Parker Vibra-Lok. These are genuine Parker seals, (note the "p" and the green stripe). These are what I was able to find locally the other day. They are Buna-N. The Viton or Flouroelastomer ones are rated for higher temps and have a red stripe. The cheapest place I found them was ebay at $15 for 5 of them. the Parker part # is 60vlv-6, if you want to search for some. You should be able to change them out without pulling the turbo. If the turbo drain grommet is leaking, you'd have to pull the turbo to replace it.
Excellent response man! You even dummy proofed it with pics lol. Thanks
 

Big Bart

Tow&Slow
Joined
Dec 22, 2020
Posts
764
Reaction score
429
Location
Newport Beach, CA
So the front main seal is generally much easier than the rear. I have not replaced mine so not sure if the seal rides on the crank or the damper. Others can chime in who have. If you pull the seal and see deep grooves in the crank you may need to sleeve it, or find and replace with a good one if it rides on the damper. Or risk having a leak soon after.

You may have valve covers that leak, letting oil go down both sides of the bell housing or on to the top of the engine and down the valley pan drain hole.

Hopefully it is not the rear main seal (Or it is a small leak you can live with.) as you would have to pull the tranny and flexplate/flywheel which is a fair amount of work.

Brake cleaner with the straw and a rag is a good way to clean a spot or area and then be able to look for a leak.

Let us know what you find.
 

aggiediesel01

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
Posts
505
Reaction score
404
Location
Houston, TX
All the rubber seals and gaskets for the turbo system you may need can be sourced from a couple forum members here. Russrepair.com is the closest to you over in Oregon and classicdieseldesigns.com also has many of these parts as well they’re just a ways away from you down here in TX.

If you’ve got oil under the turbo and you’ve said the p.o. recently had it off, it’s possible the oring that seals the turbo to the pedestal/drain was pinched. It’s quite a challenge to get the turbo in place and the bolts installed without bumping that seal off it’s place. It can be a common place for leaks if the turbo was recently removed and replaced.

Valve cover gaskets are also a very common oil leak. Often the bolts can just be tightened a bit and it will seal for a few more years.

The valve stem seals can be replaced insitu. You have to make a simple lever to push the valve springs down and you have to create an adapter using part of a compression tester to pressurize the cylinder while you work but it can be done in an afternoon or so. Much better than pulling the heads. You should know that valve guides can get quite worn on high mileage engines but if yours was reasonably taken care of and being a turbo motor, @ 190k I’d consider it maybe a little over half life, not really ready for a head rebuild yet but definitely a candidate for valve stem seals if other leak remedies don't make enough difference. Make sure you rotate each piston to TDC for the cylinder you are working on so if a valve drops by accident it doesn't go all the way into the cylinder. You can get close enough to TDC by putting your finger over the glowplug hole on the compression stroke and feel when air stops bleeding out and starts to suck back in. You need to regulate the air pressure to only use just enough air pressure to hold the valve up but not turn the motor over, otherwise it will spin to BDC and then the valve can drop into the cylinder. It helps to get as close to TDC as possible and leave all the other GPs installed to create resistance to turning while working on a specific cylinder.

Here's a pic of a tool I made to compress the springs. It pivots on a rocker arm bolt. Also attached is the compression tester I used to create the adapter to pressurize the cylinder I was working on.
 

Attachments

  • MVC-015F.JPG
    MVC-015F.JPG
    123.8 KB · Views: 7
  • valve tool 1.JPG
    valve tool 1.JPG
    13.7 KB · Views: 7
  • KBVC2933.JPG
    KBVC2933.JPG
    316.4 KB · Views: 7

Vern

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Posts
144
Reaction score
29
Location
Albert NB
Re: consumption, I've been running the oil volume nearer the low level on the dipstick. I'd learned from school bus fleet managers that doing that was lowering consumption on the T444e. So why not the 444? It seems to have had an effect on disappearing oil.
 

silexis

Registered User
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Posts
22
Reaction score
5
Location
Boulder Colorado
I've been running Rotella 15w-40 for years. Only use a quart every oil change (3-4000 miles). 323,000 miles. I get a fair amount of smoke after driving low load on a mild downhill or flat road then accelerate up a hill. Guessing worn valve guides on the rear cylinders. Other than that, not much smoking. No substantial oil leaks.
While looking into oil, it seemed like the Delvac 1300 is not so great (https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/media/2018/volvot13-test-results.html).
Delo 400 seems to be the oil of choice here.
 

LindstheMarine

Registered User
Joined
Sep 24, 2021
Posts
30
Reaction score
3
Location
83843
On today's episode of 'shes a gusher'....

I found my leak! The rear main is good. It is most definitely leaking from the turbos oil return grommet. Ive got the part comming and we will how much oil consumption that cuts down on. I have a few questions about pulling the turbo that maybe yall can answer.

1) can I pull the turbo without removing the y pipe?

2) Can I leave the bottom portion of the oil supply bolded on and still be able to remove the turbo? Without mangling the line of course. Or would it just be easier to take the whole thing out?

3) What did ya use to unscrew the bottom portion of the oil supply line? I believe it takes 1/2 wrench size, but my 1/2 is way to long to fit down there.

4) I have some RTV black and was thinking of throwing that on the new grommet. Is that alright?

5) do yall have any pro tips for taking the turbo in and out smoothly or how to make sure I get this grommet seated well?

I noticed my turbo is missing the air supply line to the wastegate actuator. Corect me if im wrong, but I believe this renders the wastegate actuator inoperable... So ive got a few questions for that.

You must be registered for see images attach


1) where can I get a new one? Ive googled the living cap out of it but can find one.

2) Could I fabricate my own?

3) What would be the upper limits of boost I could hit without hurting the motor? I have a boost gauge set up. The sensor is tapped into the intake.

And lastly, I found a stray wire and was curious if yall know what it is. The second picture is what its wired into.

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach
 
Top