Baby Turbo Diesel problem. Bad thermostat?

6 Nebraska IDIs

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Alright guys, Im not sure how many of you know what I do as an occupation, but I'm in sports field management. Along with my normal duties of managing the fields, I am entrusted with all the maintenance of all the equipment we use. I have 7 years experience with this equipment, as I was hired on as an assistant mechanic for a top 10 golf course when I was 15 years old. However from time to time I get stumped, and with this one Im just not sure where to go.
I just finished a $7000 overhaul of the hydrolic system and drive train in this mower, and I don't want to be guessing on what the causes of the small problems are right now after having my boss spend so much on this mower in the last week.

A little background on the mower, its a Toro 4000D Groundsmaster, roughly 14ft cutting area between three decks, powered by a Kubota 4 cylinder, mechanically injected, turbocharged diesel engine. The layout of the mower puts the engine at the very back of the frame, with the cooling system being the only thing behind it, sucking its air in from behind. The hydrolic system's oil cooler is pre radiator mounted and its BIG. I had all kinds of problems with this thing overheating today, and it wasn't even very hot here. I had to watch the temp gauge like a hawk, could only mow for about 8 minutes and then stop, open the hood and let it cool for about 3 minutes, and repeat all day long. The rate at which the temp would rise and then fall after being stopped and opening the hood was just crazy. You could literally watch it go up and definitely down.
I blow and wash the radiator and cooler twice a week, so it can't be plugged, and that fan is blowing air over the engine like crazy so its not the fan clutch. Does this sound like a bad thermostat or water pump?
I also know that the hydrolic cooler is getting extremely hot, and possibly its overheating the air before it can pass through the radiator, but I don't have the slightest idea as to why the hydrolic system would be running so hot.
Any ideas? Any input would be appreciated as I just don't want to go throwing a bunch more money into this thing.
 

NCheek

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Looking in the radiator cap, can you see buildup around the tubes? If so, maybe some of this stuff will help...


On Edit:
I wouldn't hurt to take the T-stat out and boil it to confirm that it is working either.
 

Al_E

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What all did you do to the hydraulics? Sounds like you might have exessive HYD temps. Is the motor under a higher than normal load,you know sound like its laboring. Do you hear any hydraulic releifs squealing?
 

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Yea, it does sound like its laboring, not really excessively but more than normal maybe.
One of the guys that my brother and I never trust to run the mowers got to work 5 minutes before us Monday and Tuesday of last week, in an attempt to "get a chance to run the mowers". He hopped on the machine and was gone, out at one of the fields 2 miles down the road from our shop before we even got there. Called my boss and told him what was going on, its not my job to run the employees, and told him that the guy was going to burn down his mower because it has had overheating problems and the guy doesn't have a clue how to care for the machine.
Well he didn't even check fluids, either days he ran it, over heated it twice, and when i finally got to check out the mower it was 6 gallons low on hydraulic fluid in a 7 gallon system (yea it has had some small leaks, we've been adding fluid every day and getting by). The next day my brother made sure to be the one running it, he had to add 2 gallons in 1.5 hours of run time. At that point I knew something was wrong and pulled it onto some concrete so I could see the leaks. It had blown the seals out of two drive motors for the front "axle" and had flushed out all the gear oil in the gear boxes attached to it. Both gear boxes sustained severe damage to the gears within them and needed to be replaced, both motors needed rebuilt, and the servo control valve was fried and needed replaced ($1000 in itself).
Unfortunately the employee responsible for the damage is still working with us. Takes every ounce of restraint I have to keep from beating him to death every day.
I suppose you're gonna say he screwed the hydrostat.
 

Gary79F250

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Just a quick ? what's she running for hydraulic fluid temp/ And do you have an infared thermometer (Raytech) ect. Start shooting components in the system andd the hottest area is usualy at fault.
 

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Have absolutely no idea, Im expected to keep these things running with only a 'roadside emergency tool kit' and a $200/month budget. I had to bring a bunch of my own tools to work just to fix everything this time. And I dont have a Raytech in my own personal tool arsenal.
 

Al_E

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Are the drive motors piston or gear type? with that much carnage I would check the case drain lines on the motors for restriction(they go to tank). Servo? are you talking electric or a pilot pressure system?
 

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Pilot pressure system, forward reverse with three valves inside of it.
The motors are Cesna, and I believe they are gear, but I've never had one apart. When those things go **** up I take them to the hydraulic specialist for rebuild.
I had all the lines out of this thing and cleaned them all out. The way they idiots designed the thing you have to remove literally everything to service just about anything.
 

Al_E

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How many lines are there on the motors? 3lines and they are usually a piston motor. Is their a hyd released parking brake in the final drive assys?
 

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Yes yes and yes. The drive goes, motor, wetbrake housing, planet crusher torque box.
 

Al_E

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If its taking more power for travel I would check the brake assy and make sure they are totally releasing. Most of these systems require pressure to release(engine off no roll away).They may be useing a electric solenoid valve or piolet pressure from the hydro to control the brakes.
 

kg4tnp

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wow sounds like my job lol. I also to repair and maintence for a combo landscaping/ construction company. We have the 3 cylinder Kubotas in our finish mowers. Had one last year that had a sticking t-stat darn empolees kept running it hot untill i burned up the main hydro pump. If you can drop the cooler down away from the rad some and place a box fan on just it run the mower and watch the temps if they stay normal I'd say hydros but if it runs hot like ours did then it could be the t-stat. By the way do your guys have a bad habit of never looking at the guages also?
 

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Only the one idiot that we never let run the mowers has bad habits. He's bad news for anything he's ever ran.
The torque hub on one side is running hot as well, cant touch it. I wonder if that darn brake is holding up. That doesn't make me very happy. To check that brake I have to completely disassemble the bottom of that mower, all the hard lines, valve boxes, everything just to get to that brake.
 

kg4tnp

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could be, kinda makes sense if that brake is holding then the wheel motor is working double to spin that side. ugh I dont envy you at all sorry man. Its ok though one of our guys has a breakdown every freaking day hes running an old 722d grasshopper usally a bullet proof mower. to date hes burned up a brand new starter by not using the glow plugs, broken two blades hiting concrete (one hit sheared all the spindle bolts off) failed to grease the mower causing the caster wheels to snap off I supply all the guys with mini guns and plenty of grease, snaped the tag axle off the back, burned the pto up twice, overheated the mower 3 times, put a hole through the radiator and much much more:backoff

So i do feell for ya its hard keeping a fleet together with a low budget, your own tools and duck tape.

ps once I had to have the f350 power stroke towed back do to a "started knocking, shut down and no restart" the problem? out of Diesel cookoo
 

Al_E

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Does beat the alteranative of pulling a hydro. good luck and hope this helps you out.
 

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