7.3 IDI Turbo Knock -> Engine Pull and Rebuild

[IDIBRONCO]

I'm not sure that leaving your clutch and pressure plate on the input shaft of the transmission would make the install easier. You'd have to line up the pressure plate bolts and spin the engine over to get them all. If you do go ahead with this plan, I'd love to hear the results. One more thing. If you're going to reuse the clutch and pressure plate, be sure to mark the pressure plate and the flywheel so you can get then back together the same way they were before. If you don't get them lined back up in the right position, it can cause clutch chatter while you're letting off of the clutch pedal.

 

[riphip]

Get you some ziplock bags if you have not done so already to keep bolts, nuts & small parts...mark the bags.
Have something to keep lifters, rockers & pushrods at same cylinders unless you are replacing with new. Make a mark with a file on the upper part of pushrods if you are going to reuse to remind you which end goes to rockers

No gasket on oil pan flanges

 

[MICHAEL MICHAUD]

I'm not sure that leaving your clutch and pressure plate on the input shaft of the transmission would make the install easier. You'd have to line up the pressure plate bolts and spin the engine over to get them all. If you do go ahead with this plan, I'd love to hear the results. One more thing. If you're going to reuse the clutch and pressure plate, be sure to mark the pressure plate and the flywheel so you can get then back together the same way they were before. If you don't get them lined back up in the right position, it can cause clutch chatter while you're letting off of the clutch pedal.

I understand I will have to turn the engine over but that really doesn't seem that difficult. I have been bouncing the idea around in my head. Ill definitely let you know how it turns out if that what I do, but I do know that in my situation with the hill/lift that before my oil pans deepest part will clear the support the fingers hit the spline so it will be something to contend with during installation. Heck maybe the spline will just push the finger in by itself.

Also I ordered a new LuK clutch, the PO said he bought the cheapest setup he could at NAPA and replaced it like 15k miles ago, it looks to be in outstanding shape but I have the engine out so I might as well just put in something nicer.

Get you some ziplock bags if you have not done so already to keep bolts, nuts & small parts...mark the bags.
Have something to keep lifters, rockers & pushrods at same cylinders unless you are replacing with new. Make a mark with a file on the upper part of pushrods if you are going to reuse to remind you which end goes to rockers

No gasket on oil pan flanges

Thank you for the tips. I have a whole table dedicated to parts that have specific orientations, but I didn't think to identify the tops and bottoms of the push rods other than laying them a certain way. Maybe a white paint marker will come in handy.

I fix Jet engines and remove install them for a living. Bag and tag parts at work then come home and do it again haha.

 

[saburai]

A piece of 2 by 6 with the appropriate size holes drilled and numbered with a paint marker or a Sharpie makes an excellent place to put the push rods during a rebuild.

 

[MICHAEL MICHAUD]

Saburai. You can be sure that is exactly what i will be doing, thanks for the great idea.

So as i am tearing into this engine I noticed that the header bolts were loose and tons of gunk and build up around the #7 cylinder. Could that have been causing the knock? Should I tighten them up and put everything back together haha?

Its way too late for that trial and error but seriously, Can a loose header on 1 cylinder cause a knock. I tried tightening the bolts and they tighten and thread just fine.

 

[riphip]

Could be but now you can check lower end, redo oil cooler, & reseal oil pan. Those are harder to do with engine in truck but not impossible. Exhaust leak sounds like metallic tick anyway. Those jet engines kinda backfire when they leak. Nephew is tech at FEDEX. They fly overhead all the time & a few have had to turn around lately backfiring

 

[MICHAEL MICHAUD]

Could be but now you can check lower end, redo oil cooler, & reseal oil pan. Those are harder to do with engine in truck but not impossible. Exhaust leak sounds like metallic tick anyway. Those jet engines kinda backfire when they leak. Nephew is tech at FEDEX. They fly overhead all the time & a few have had to turn around lately backfiring

The entire engine is apart except for the pistons. I cant get them to slide out and I cut my thumb on the piston ring so its time to call it a day before something goes wacky. I tried removing the #7 and #8 but it seems the second ring is stuck on the small carbon lip at the top of the cylinders. Can I hit the pistons on the bottom with a long extension to get them out? Is there a special order where I can remove all the rod ends and get the crank out and slide the cylinders down the bore?

For future rebuilders you can pull the cam gear with a 3 hook puller and an impact. I used a little bit of heat with map gas torch on the outside of the gear so I would transfer as little as possible to the camshaft.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

You can hit (just tap, not really hit) the pistons with something. I prefer something made of wood instead of metal. Then I tap on the end of whatever it is that I'm using. If you are not going to reuse your pistons, then you don't have to be as careful. If you're reusing them, be sure to tap them toward you and keep your leg underneath the cylinder to keep the pistons from hitting the floor and damaging them. That's assuming that you have the engine upside down while you're removing the pistons. You can remove all of the rod caps and then pull the crank out, but it's kind of difficult. I only try this as a last resort. Be sure to number the caps and rods so that you can get the right cap back on the rod. You can use number stamps or even a center punch. You can use more dings on the caps and rods to indicate the higher number of cylinder. Maybe you should get a ball hone to remove the carbon ring before you try removing the pistons.

 

[MICHAEL MICHAUD]

You can hit (just tap, not really hit) the pistons with something. I prefer something made of wood instead of metal. Then I tap on the end of whatever it is that I'm using. If you are not going to reuse your pistons, then you don't have to be as careful. If you're reusing them, be sure to tap them toward you and keep your leg underneath the cylinder to keep the pistons from hitting the floor and damaging them. That's assuming that you have the engine upside down while you're removing the pistons. You can remove all of the rod caps and then pull the crank out, but it's kind of difficult. I only try this as a last resort. Be sure to number the caps and rods so that you can get the right cap back on the rod. You can use number stamps or even a center punch. You can use more dings on the caps and rods to indicate the higher number of cylinder. Maybe you should get a ball hone to remove the carbon ring before you try removing the pistons.

Damn man. You are a genius. I have a ball hone and I was thinking of removing the lip but I couldnt think of how to do it. I have tons of wood, much better than a metal extension. Thank you!

I plan on resusing my pistons if possible. Do you put the same piston on the same cylinder or is it best to swap the fronts with the backs? I know that the rear pistons tend to take more of a beating due to all the extra heat.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

You generally put them back in the same holes. The crank clearances may be a little different in different places. In theory, they should be the same, but if, for some reason, they're not, you may get not quite enough oil clearance or a little bit too much, even with new bearings. I'm not really a genius on this stuff, but I have torn down literally dozens of these engines so I have a pretty good idea how they act when you take them apart. WARNING! You will never get the oil stains out of the pants you're wearing, nut a new pair will cost way less than a new set of pistons. Also, what works good for removing the oil stains is "Skin So Soft" by Avon. That's no joke. The other thing that works good is time.

 

[MICHAEL MICHAUD]

Everything is apart and lots of greasy oily parts are getting dropped at the machine shop at 8 am today for hot tanking and to have the block and heads checked out.

Heres what I have found so far:

Valves and seats, lifters, pushrods, springs, rockers, Pistons, wrist pins, all have no play or discernable damage. The only things I found during this are loose header bolts and an obvious exhaust leak (lots of gunk and build up around that area of the manifold) and the flexible rubber fuel hose going to the mechanical fuel pump may have been slightly kinked and constricted.

Dirtiest motor I have ever seen, I think the valve cover seals were original, they were leaking amongst some other seals. the coolant and oil were clean, I guess the black stuff in the reservoir must just be some dirt or grime otherwise. now that I pulled the fuel oil cooler I can see what oil in coolant looks like and its not what I have in the reservoir.

Rod bearings don't have hot spots, crank looks good.

Should I replace the lifters if there is nothing wrong with them just because I have everything apart?

After the machine shop checks everything I am going to order parts and ill put a list up of everything I ordered. I am starting to think I pulled this motor over an exhaust knock, maybe even timing haha but I'm going to keep my head up. I cant resist a project anyhow. I'm also putting in a cam and replacing a bunch of seals so its no sweat.

Also if you have pulled these heads before with the engine in the truck. Impressive work.

 

[Macrobb]

If you are going to be using a cam, you need piston-to-valve clearance. Check the valve recession(bottom of valve to bottom of head).
Deeper than spec is OK, shallower is NOT.
Check with your cam maker(typ4 or R&D) about clearances.

 

[MICHAEL MICHAUD]

If you are going to be using a cam, you need piston-to-valve clearance. Check the valve recession(bottom of valve to bottom of head).
Deeper than spec is OK, shallower is NOT.
Check with your cam maker(typ4 or R&D) about clearances.

Ill be sure to check the clearances.

Update. Local machine shop says the cylinder bore on number 7 is .011" larger than every other cylinder so I need another block or to get this thing sleeved on the back 4 or over bored. Off to a diesel machine shop.

 

[MICHAEL MICHAUD]

Heres the update, lets keep in mind the vast majority of good old IDIs on the road are not sleeved. I would have loved to sleeve the whole block or the back four or even back two but Im relying on advices of someone much more experienced than me.

I brought everything to Edwards Machine Shop in Goldsboro NC, he confimed that my #7 cylinder was extra large but he measured +.012". He has been in business 27 years and specifically only machines diesel engines. He has sleeved over 200 of these motors through various contract and individual work, as well as thousands of other sleeves in big rig and ship diesel engines. I called several diesel performance places in the area and each one recommended Edwards machine shop.

That being said, he told me that every other cylinder, including #8 is spot on for bore tolerances and that if it was his engine he would only sleeve Cylinder #7, obviously because of labor and cost etc its not worth the money to do anymore than you have to. His name is Mike, and he showed me all around his large shop, we talked about cavitation and he talked about his experience building and machining the engines it was nice to speak with someone who could confirm and understand all of my research. He said the towing of my car probably caused the piston to go off balance and start knocking in the larger bore. He calls it Piston Walk. He told me to check for piston damage on the piston skirt but I looked at my #7 piston and it has no abnormal wear from the rest of the pistons so I think I am going to keep it. Also it has less that 150 miles on it since the knock began

He is going to sleeve #7 and bring it back to spec, remove old and install new cam bearings, hone the cylinders, hot tank every single piece of the engine besides the valves, crank and pistons, all for an exceptional, military friendly, price.

Heres my parts list:

-Comp 910 SPrings
-Banks Downpipe
-Typ4 Injectors, Cam and IP
-Northern Auto Engine re ring kit
----felpro gaskets
----STD Main, STD Rod bearings (cam bearings are from machine shop)
----Yes they have the IDI turbo piston rings available for the kit if you call and ask they will swap for the N/A ones. Turbo rings p/n:42104, s42104 for singles.
-Facet Lift Pump
-Fuel Pump block off plate
-LuK clutch kit from Summit.
-AC Delco steering box.
-ARP studs
-Sealed Power Lifters

I bought the old DTI 3300 timing box and the light that goes with it so I can do my timing once she is back together. I think Ill post into the timing registry and rent the equiptment. $200 down payment, $150 returned if I get it all back in one piece.

It is relieving to know that I have successfully diagnosed and found the cause of the problem because as I was tearing this apart I couldnt find anything obviously wrong. There was some scoring on the #7 cylinder that Mike pointed out to me as well. All in all I am feeling good about the build.

I am very grateful for all of the advice and tips you guys provide so please dont hesitate to chime in.

 

[Hydro-idi]

I would definitely replace the lifters especially with those comp 910 springs your putting in.
Summit has a pretty good deal for sealed power lifters FYI. Don’t go with enginetech if you do end up replacing them.