6.9 head studs?

Farmer Rock

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So I have been looking through some threads on the subject, and from what I see, it is best to pull the motor, and install head studs and head gaskets when turbocharging a 6.9 .
So I have a few questions.

#1- is it safe to run a turbo without studs on a 6.9?


#2- can some point me in the right direction for buying the head studs?


#3- what kind of boost is safe to run with and without the head studs?


Thanks



Rock
 

IDIBRONCO

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#1- yes you can although it may be best to try to retourque your head bolts first.
#2-you can buy them directly from ARP. You could also try Ebay and Wes may sell them although he seems to stock more of the 7.3 stuff.
#3-Generally 10 PSI with bolts and 15 PSI with studs is considered to be safe. You can push farther, but how far is up to you. You know that the results of pushing too far aren't pretty, mean a lot more work, and will make you kick yourself in the backside.
 

Farmer Rock

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#1- yes you can although it may be best to try to retourque your head bolts first.
#2-you can buy them directly from ARP. You could also try Ebay and Wes may sell them although he seems to stock more of the 7.3 stuff.
#3-Generally 10 PSI with bolts and 15 PSI with studs is considered to be safe. You can push farther, but how far is up to you. You know that the results of pushing too far aren't pretty, mean a lot more work, and will make you kick yourself in the backside.
Thank you! So is it recommended to run 10 psi or less on the head bolts after retorqueing them?This truck is just my daily driver/ work truck, so I plan on keeping it reliable. I guess I am just trying to to figure out if I need the studs or not. I have no problem with pulling the motor and installing the studs if that is necessary, since I don't want to damage anything.



Rock
 

frankenwrench

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I ran my 6.9 with studs and felt real cozy at 12 psi max. I pushed it on several occasions and had it up to 17 psi on occasion and got lucky.
 

Booyah45828

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I'm in the same boat.

I'll be turboing my 6.9 soon as well, and have mixed thoughts about studs. Don't get me wrong, I think studs are a good improvement over the bolts. My original plan was a 1-1 swap of bolts to studs when I install the turbo, leaving the heads and gaskets intact.

The problem I have is that some threads and members on here lead me to believe that I won't get all of the bolts out without twisting off at least one of them. So the idea of a 1-1 swap without removing the heads isn't likely to happen. And by breaking one bolt, it means that I have to remove the heads to remove the broken piece, and by removing the heads I'll have to replace the gaskets.

Whereas boosting on head bolts, means I "might" possibly blow the gaskets, and if I do, I'll have to remove the heads and replace the gaskets and then do studs anyways.

So in my eyes, both options will result in gasket replacement, I just have to decide if I want to do it now, or wait until they fail. If this was my daily, I'd do it now and get it out of the way. But I think I'm going to roll the dice and boost on the bolts. The bus is driven a few times a year, and not very far, so it won't be the end of the world if a gasket does fail.
 

Laine D

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#1- yes you can although it may be best to try to retourque your head bolts first.
#2-you can buy them directly from ARP. You could also try Ebay and Wes may sell them although he seems to stock more of the 7.3 stuff.
#3-Generally 10 PSI with bolts and 15 PSI with studs is considered to be safe. You can push farther, but how far is up to you. You know that the results of pushing too far aren't pretty, mean a lot more work, and will make you kick yourself in the backside.
I can attest
 

cozinsky

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I'm in the same boat.

I'll be turboing my 6.9 soon as well, and have mixed thoughts about studs. Don't get me wrong, I think studs are a good improvement over the bolts. My original plan was a 1-1 swap of bolts to studs when I install the turbo, leaving the heads and gaskets intact.

The problem I have is that some threads and members on here lead me to believe that I won't get all of the bolts out without twisting off at least one of them. So the idea of a 1-1 swap without removing the heads isn't likely to happen. And by breaking one bolt, it means that I have to remove the heads to remove the broken piece, and by removing the heads I'll have to replace the gaskets.
I wouldn't go that route for another reason. The head gaskets have already been compressed with a preset torque when the bolts were installed. Removing the bolts and installing studs, even if done one at a time, alters the compression load on the gasket since studs are usually torqued at a higher level than stock bolts which further crushes the old gaskets. Not a good thing.
 

IDIBRONCO

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The problem I have is that some threads and members on here lead me to believe that I won't get all of the bolts out without twisting off at least one of them. So the idea of a 1-1 swap without removing the heads isn't likely to happen. And by breaking one bolt, it means that I have to remove the heads to remove the broken piece, and by removing the heads I'll have to replace the gaskets.
The biggest problem that I have with this method (other than head gaskets) is that without removing the heads, you can't get a tool down into the bolt holes to clean all of the accumulated crud out of them. If you can't clean out the holes, then if there is any crud in them, and there usually is, then the stud won't be able to go all the way down into the hole. This will leave the stud sticking up higher than it should and can cause clearance issues with your rocker arms. Besides, after 30+ years of abuse on the old ones, new head gaskets are always a good idea. Even without a turbo.
 

1mouse3

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The engine dose not need to be pulled to remove the heads, removing the hvac box and fenders along with having it on stands without front wheel will make it a lot easyer. To get all the studs in, this one on the driver side will need taped so stays in the head during install of the head.

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Farmer Rock

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The engine dose not need to be pulled to remove the heads, removing the hvac box and fenders along with having it on stands without front wheel will make it a lot easyer. To get all the studs in, this one on the driver side will need taped so stays in the head during install of the head.

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Thank you! That makes it a lot easier for sure. I wasn't %100 sure about it.





Rock
 

Booyah45828

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The biggest problem that I have with this method (other than head gaskets) is that without removing the heads, you can't get a tool down into the bolt holes to clean all of the accumulated crud out of them. If you can't clean out the holes, then if there is any crud in them, and there usually is, then the stud won't be able to go all the way down into the hole. This will leave the stud sticking up higher than it should and can cause clearance issues with your rocker arms. Besides, after 30+ years of abuse on the old ones, new head gaskets are always a good idea. Even without a turbo.


Plan was to use a spiral bottoming tap, with a tap extension, and vacuuming/blowing the hole out with compressed air after. The extension OD measures a hair over 7/16, so I felt I wouldn't have fitment issues doing that. I've got all that in the shop already, so the cost is nothing.

Yes, you're supposed to use a thread chaser vs a tap, but with that long of an extension, I don't think I'd have issues going in straight and cross threading the hole. The spiral flute would help to pull the crud out as well. The little bit of metal removed using a cutting tap isn't a concern for me either. I doubt the strength of the threaded bore would be compromised if it was missing a thou or two.

I've done bolt to stud swap on 6.0's and gas LS engines with stock gaskets. Granted, those all use a MLS gasket design, but the stock idi gasket isn't a sponge material, so the gasket compression difference between a bolt vs stud can't be that much.

My thoughts, is if I'm going to pull the head to do gaskets, I'm having the heads machined flat. There's no sense in throwing gaskets at a bad surface, and I've never pulled a head and it be perfectly flat. Then, if I'm pulling the heads to surface them, I might as well put guides and seats in them, because those are likely worn too. And then I might as well machine the block too at that point, so I know both surfaces are good and the gasket won't have issues. If I'm pulling the block to machine it, I might as well rebuild the thing with new rings and a fresh bote, because there's no sense in not doing that at that point. So a head gasket job pretty much ends up being a total rebuild for me, and rebuilding an engine that gets ran a few hundred miles a year is foolish in my eyes.

Just a note, my idi is in a bus. So I can do the bolt to stud swap without any cab interference. I don't think you pickup guys can do that. I believe pulling the heads is a must to install studs in a pickup.

Stud install on the 6.9 will probably be dependent if I can get a set of them for cheap between now and the turbo install. If the gaskets blow on the 6.9, then the spare 7.3 will likely be swapped before I rebuild the 6.9.
 

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