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1997 7.3 powertroke E350 no start

Discussion in '7.3L Powerstroke Diesels' started by joeblack5, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. joeblack5

    joeblack5 Registered User

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    Evening folks,
    I have trouble with our E350 powerstroke van.. No start.
    Have this van for 15 years and installed a tach about 5 years ago.
    Last trip was running fine, turned it of and would not start again.. waited 4 hours and fired up without a hitch. Then drove fine.

    Started first turn last week, today zero, cranks strong. tacho shows 200 RPM.

    CEL lights up for 1/4 second and then goes out
    WTS comes on and goes out together with clicking of GPR
    Batteries fully charged.
    Mechanical pressure gauge shows 70psi fuel pressure at schrader valve
    Torque pro shows
    HPOP 2300 psi while starting.

    No stored ecu codes

    Replaced IDM, no difference.
    Probed CID signal , shows high low when cranking.
    IDM return signal about 3 volt DC and 6 VAC with fluke DVM

    With Car gauge pro I ran a KOER test
    passed
    Ran buzz test.
    All injectors buzz.
    Measured injector harness
    All ohm out to 3 OHM on IDM connector with IDM removed


    I did not measure FCDS but I would think that circuit should be good with going thru a buzz test?

    No white smoke or unburnt diesel smell

    What am I missing, suggestion please

    Johan
     
  2. 79jasper

    79jasper Chickenhawk

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    Just for giggles, try plugging it in for a couple hours. Injectors could be worn, this will somewhat test that.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
  3. joeblack5

    joeblack5 Registered User

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    Thank you Jasper,

    Unfortunately this morning just started up like always does. Less then one turn.
    I have also an old enguinity scanner with powerstroke enhancements and had that hooked up.

    Forgot to mention above that the engine is not chipped, completely original with 145000 miles.

    The CEL light is off. It blinks for 1/4 second when you turn the key to contact.

    Under enhanced powertrain it gives two codes

    P0603 injector control Module Keep alive Memory Kam Error
    P1280 Injector Control Pressure Sensor circuit low.


    I took the ICP sensor connector off. There is no oil inside. At idle the ICP pressure is 475 psi and goes up if I touch the throttle.

    with engine running I took the sensor connector of and the ICP pressure goes to 724 psi
    When reconnected it takes a minute to go back to 500 psi.

    I reset the P0603 and P1280 code but it showes up every time again.. Both batteries are properly hooked up and no corrosion on the battery poles / connectors.

    Does the ECU have an internal memory battery that can go bad?

    In the E350 7.3 diagram of the engine compartment fusebox fuse #4 10 Amp is labeled as KAM fuse. Tested good, 13 Volt on both sides. took it out to confirm.

    Cleared both codes and tried again.

    ICP P1280 disappeared
    P0603 still there.

    of course the van starts and runs fine right now.
    Anybody has a hunch?

    Thank you,
    Johan
     
  4. 79jasper

    79jasper Chickenhawk

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    While currently the icp seems to be fine, I would replace it. I wouldn't worry too much about the KAM code. Batteries disconnected recently?

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  5. joeblack5

    joeblack5 Registered User

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    Thanks Jasper, I will try that, If i understand the ICP voltage versus pressure table then 500 psi = 0.85 Volt.

    Now that is the feed back signal from the sensor... A lower voltage is a lower pressure that through the PCM controls the IPR. So for a low actual pressure the PCM has to think that there is a high pressure, so the ICP gives 5 Volt.
    With other words for a no start condition ( lower then 500 psi) the ICP signal has to be very high , like shorted to the Vref .

    Is that thought correct?
     
  6. 79jasper

    79jasper Chickenhawk

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    I believe that is correct.

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  7. joeblack5

    joeblack5 Registered User

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    ok , thank you, I will try that also and see if I can simulate a no start. Also missing neutral to the ICP might do the same thing.
     
  8. lotzagoodstuff

    lotzagoodstuff Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    When was the last time you changed the crank position sensor? If I recall, a factory tach will read zero RPMs when cranking with a bad CPS, and intermittent CPS issues are very common.

    I'd buy one just to have a spare. Do a quick google search as there's lots of info on which ones work best and which ones to stay away from. Even if it's not your problem, IMHO any 7.3 PSD owner should have a spare CPS in their glovebox as a spare.

    Intermittent issues are tough, so good luck to you.
     
  9. joeblack5

    joeblack5 Registered User

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    Thanks lotzagood,
    Yeah it has been a while, I have a spare but the tach signal comes from the PCM who gets it from the cps. I would like to think since this is all digital that if the tach signal is there that the CPM is good. I could see if the cpm supplied the tach signal and the PCM that the PCM would be more sensitive to abnormal signals.
    Intermittent so yeah, a pain.

    Johan
     
  10. joeblack5

    joeblack5 Registered User

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    Well today I made an IDM breakout box with switches to turn injectors off. It also has three LED lights that make the CID ,FCDC and FE signals visible. IMG_20200803_115455_671.jpg
     
  11. joeblack5

    joeblack5 Registered User

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    Hello all,

    Today I drove to sam's club..started immediately and ran fine at 30 fahrenheit after sitting for 3 days. At Sam's the engine was warmish .
    Got my stuff and crank very well but no start.

    Started 6 to 8 times..sequence:

    Key on..glowplug light for 1/2 second..crank...needle of rpm counter moves in the 200 rpm range... Oil pressure light goes out... Oil pressure gauge comes on.... No start.. nothing..no puffs ..no smells.


    Wiggled...pcm and idm relay..
    Measured voltages on both sides of pcm, idm ,kam fuse..all good.

    Same as above crank but no start.

    In frustration I pulled the KAM fuse.
    Immediate start with no smoke rough idling or anything.

    Since this no start is a random issue it can mean nothing or can the KAM set a memory fault preventing the engine from starting?

    Any insights appreciated.

    Johan
     
  12. greenskeeper

    greenskeeper Full Access Member

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    P0603 injector control Module Keep alive Memory Kam Error
    P1280 Injector Control Pressure Sensor circuit low.

    KAM error is common on stock trucks, more so when chipped

    ICP isn't showing the proper voltage for expected oil pressure according to the PCM

    I'd be the IPR itself or the IPR solenoid is failing when hot.

    Is the IPR original?
     
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  13. joeblack5

    joeblack5 Registered User

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    Yes all is original. No tuner.. That would be possible. Do the icp or ipr randomly malfunction and then work again?

    Sofar I have left the kam fuse of and it seems to have no ill effect.

    It was just strange that it started right up after I pulled the kam fuse.

    I can wire a voltmeter over the icp and see how it fluctuates. During start it would malfunction and read very high so that ipr would open and actually drain all the pressure.

    I guess the safest would be to install a high pressure gauge and monitor mechanically...where would be the best spot to tie in a pressure gauge.

    Thank you.

    Johan
     
  14. greenskeeper

    greenskeeper Full Access Member

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    where is this "kam fuse" located? I've never heard of this fuse.

    instead of wiring a voltmeter and installing an oil gauge, best bet is to get a scanner that can log as you drive to see what your sensor are reading when it quits.

    My money would be on the IPR itself, or the solenoid, or the pigtail.
     
  15. joeblack5

    joeblack5 Registered User

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    Thank you greenskeeper..
    Will see if I get the scanner to work and report back.

    Johan
     

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