1989 S1600 x Uhaul truck 7.3 IDI

[hrsitton]

I replaced the IP with a rebuilt unit. It smokes white exhaust excessively on startup but mostly clears a few miles down the road. When driving slow, like in town, and then depressing the accelerator it does pour out more black smoke that it did before the replacement. This leads me to think the fuel is turned up a little too much.

Dieselcrawlers' post on adjusting the fuel has been downloaded and saved on my desktop. Thank you!

I have also read that timing can cause excessive smoke on startup also. So far, I have not found directions for adjusting the IP timing on this truck. The three attachment bolts for the IP bolt it solidly in place with no room to turn the IP in either direction as far as I can tell. There is a timing groove but no allowance for turning.

Advice on this or where I can find an explanation will be muchly appreciated.

Thanks! Harold

 

[frankenwrench]

Loosen those three nuts holding the ip and you can use a 3/4 wrench on the boss to slightly articulate the ip itself left and right. I typically loosen the lines from the injectors. Not take them off, just loosen them enough to move them a bit. Same with the nuts on ip.

 

[Big Bart]

Also it is suggested to not run the vehicle with the IP loose.

You can move the timing marks a dimes thickness at a time till you feel you have a good balance of easy starting, nice idle, and decent power.

You IP has a cold advance that stays on till the engine warms up. Then it shuts off. Could be why the white smoke goes away a few miles later.

There is a guy on eBay who sells the DTI tech time timing meters for $220 if you want to set the timing more precisely. You can get close but the question is how close?

 

[hrsitton]

Deal is, this is an actual International engine, not a Ford. Ford changed a few things such as being able to rotate the IP with the 3 bolts loosened. Can't do that on an International. There is absolutely no rotational play once the three bolts are in place. None.

I did read how to change the timing on the International a few years ago but haven't been able to find it again. That particular article also verified that it could not be turned as with a Ford.

I've had the truck for 11 years and have had it from Arizona to Montana and back plus a lot more. Sure, they smoke more on start up. Until they are warm enough to fully burn the fuel, how could they not?

Thing is, the smoke on start up after the IP replacement is 10-20 times more than it was with the old IP. Plus it never emitted black smoke before on light acceleration.

I started it up yesterday and if it was gas, I'd say it was missing on a cylinder. It has sat a lot for the last few years. I have a IR temp gauge so I'll check the ehaust ports and see what I find. If they are all even,I'l go ahead and turn the fuel down 1/6 turn and see if there's a change.

Hey, thanks for the replies. I probably should have given more details.

 

[Big Bart]

Most folks in this section ended up with a U-haul or ambulance based on a Ford truck or van. Just assumed you had a U-haul based off a Ford. So begs the question what times the IP if it is stationary? Let us know when you find out If no one reply’s.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Deal is, this is an actual International engine, not a Ford. Ford changed a few things such as being able to rotate the IP with the 3 bolts loosened. Can't do that on an International. There is absolutely no rotational play once the three bolts are in place. None.

I'm certainly not arguing with you here since I haven't seen one since the late 90's. I just don't recall that. Stupid old age!

 

[Cubey]

Deal is, this is an actual International engine, not a Ford. Ford changed a few things such as being able to rotate the IP with the 3 bolts loosened. Can't do that on an International.

Being able to rotate the IP is a feature of the IP itself, not the engine. You said you had the IP replaced, so odds are yours can be adjusted, even if the original IP was machined to disallow adjusting. If you're not able to and you're sure you have all 3 bolts loosened enough, it may be the hard fuel lines preventing it. Pic below shows the three oblong holes for allowing rotating of the IP.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[TNBrett]

Is it a Stanadyne pump? I have Stanadyne DB2 pumps on 3 different types of engines Deere, Allis Chalmers, and International. All have slots for rotating the pump. The Stanadyne Manual I have shows 3 different mounting flanges, all with slotted holes.

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The engine manual I have has a ford watermark, but is clearly a Navistar manual as it shows the SAE bell housing, International exhaust Manifolds, and has the timing adapter installed on the #4 cylinder. It refers to setting the dynamic timing using a tach-n-time. It refers to manual CGES-460, which I don’t have, for that though.

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I think you should look closer at the mounting of your pump. If it truly isn’t adjustable(not likely), then maybe try and find that CGES-460 manual. Let us know what you find, because to me it sounds like your timing is off.

 

[Farmer Rock]

I had an international s1600 with a 6.9.
The pump is exactly the same as my f250. No difference what so ever and both rotate....I don't see why yours would be different, but I suppose it's possible..

Rock

 

[hrsitton]

The Ford 7.3 is based on the International 7.3, not the other way around. Ford purchased the use of International Patents on their engine but did change a few things.

I did not "have" the rebuilt IP installed. I did it myself. There were only round holes for the mounting bolts in the IP and in the engine block as well.

The IP is a Stanadyne DB2-4814.

I tried looking for images on search but only found two that did not show the mounting holes. Looking on eBay here are two photos of Stanadynes one with slotted holes and one with round holes. After wondering if I was crazy, I just went out and checked the bolts on mine and there is no sign at all of a slot. I remember wondering about the lack of adjustment when I installed the IP.

So anyhow, the conclusion from the pictures is clear that some Stanadynes have slots some do not.

The mounting bolt location for the IP shown on the above post is totally different from mine. Mine are located on the backside, pass through the IP flange, and screw into the block. Very difficult to access. I had to jury-rig a special wrench to be able to remove on bolt. And one of the nuts can't be fully removed until the IP is slid back a fraction.

Don't know how much of a difference there is, but my S1600 is a 7.3 not 6.9.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Big Bart]

So in the picture you attached of a used one there is adjustment via a oblong hole. Does that have a different purpose like adjusting the timing gear/or chain tension?

Curios what does adjust the timing. A screw on the pump, an adjustable gear or chain, or what? On some diesels you adjust the pump via a dial indicator and screw. Perhaps your pump allows for that. But maybe it was on Standyne to set these to a spec at the factory. But that would not allow adjustment for wear and pressure drop over time.

 

[hrsitton]

It's been around 2 1/2 years since I replaced the pump and it's been mostly sitting since. Have been planning to attack the smoke problem but things got in the way.

When I did replace the IP, I was working off a really great post, a sticky I think, that gave a step by step guide, including the modification needed for one wrench and the need to slide the IP back 1/8" or so to remove the top nut.

Since then I had to update from W7 to W10 and somehow lost that guide. At least I have not found it in my external hard drive and haven't found it online.

Monday I will call the IP place I bought it from and ask them if I'm crazy and if not how the timing is adjusted.

I'll be back then.

And all I "seem" to remember from the guide was that the timing adjustment could easily be screwed up and was best done with the proper special equipment. I'm an 80YO but I "think" I'm remembering this straight.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

The mounting bolt location for the IP shown on the above post is totally different from mine. Mine are located on the backside, pass through the IP flange, and screw into the block. Very difficult to access. I had to jury-rig a special wrench to be able to remove on bolt.

The picture in that manual that shows "mounting bolts" shows the bolts that attach the IP to the timing gear and is correct. What you're talking about has been studs with nuts on all of the IPs that I've seen. They are located on the back side of the IP gear housing, the side that faces away from the radiator. Although you do mention a nut later so I'm guessing that you're thinking "bolt" when it's actually "nuts and studs". It is possible that the studs (maybe just two?) were removed for some reason and bolts were used in their place.

So in the picture you attached of a used one there is adjustment via a oblong hole. Does that have a different purpose like adjusting the timing gear/or chain tension?

That picture doesn't count. That IP appears to be for a 6 cylinder so it's not for a 6.9/7.3 engine. The one above that doesn't look like a DB2 pump although I won't swear to that since I don't what makes a pump a DB2. I've never seen a triangle shaped flange on a Ford or International application. They're always been round. The only triangle shaped flanges that I've seen were on 6.2/6.5s. The biggest difference that I can see is that the triangle in both the manual picture and the other picture points down. The triangle on the 6.2/6.5s all point up.

 

[Farmer Rock]

The Ford 7.3 is based on the International 7.3, not the other way around. Ford purchased the use of International Patents on their engine but did change a few things.

So.....when did I state differently... I've been around enough of these trucks to know something so obvious bud...

I did not "have" the rebuilt IP installed. I did it myself. There were only round holes for the mounting bolts in the IP and in the engine block as well.

The IP is a Stanadyne DB2-4814.

I tried looking for images on search but only found two that did not show the mounting holes. Looking on eBay here are two photos of Stanadynes one with slotted holes and one with round holes. After wondering if I was crazy, I just went out and checked the bolts on mine and there is no sign at all of a slot. I remember wondering about the lack of adjustment when I installed the IP.

So anyhow, the conclusion from the pictures is clear that some Stanadynes have slots some do not.

The mounting bolt location for the IP shown on the above post is totally different from mine. Mine are located on the backside, pass through the IP flange, and screw into the block. Very difficult to access. I had to jury-rig a special wrench to be able to remove on bolt. And one of the nuts can't be fully removed until the IP is slid back a fraction.

Don't know how much of a difference there is, but my S1600 is a 7.3 not 6.9.

You must be registered for see images attach

I'd have to agree with IDIBronco, I've never seen an IDI with a triangle flanged IP..
Something is mixed up here.
There is no difference in 6.9 or 7.3s as far as the mounting base on IP.


Rock

 

[hrsitton]

Ok. Yep, those bolts were for the gear. It's been 3 years. I remember now I had to special order a 12 point socket that size as normally available are all 6 point.

And yes, that top "nut" that can't be removed without sliding the IP back a bit is on a stud. Don't remember but makes sense that the other two would be studs also.

The triangle flange picture was not of a DB2. It is a Standadyne and was posted just to show all Standadynes did not all have slots. I could not find a DB2-4814 that showed the holes. Will be calling the place where I bought it tomorrow and ask. Mine is round.

I have a theory. We'll see if it pans out tomorrow. Somebody in the higher up Uhaul knows about the OilBurner site and said they had to find a way that the timing could not be easily advanced or any oilburner that rented one would be under the hood as it is pretty weak with a large load.

Because they were buying a bunch, Standadyne agreed to make a plate with non-slotted holes to keep the modifiers outta there. Heck, if I was working for Uhaul I'd probably have suggested the same!