4 speed and 5 speed interchangibility questions...

(SORRY I CANT EDIT THE TITLE, I AM HAVE A BAD TYPING MORNING)

So I found a 1984 F250 4x4 with a 4 speed manual tans. That i cna pick up cheap. I was thinking about swiping the trans and clutch pedal out of it, so I can get my truck swapped over to a manual trans. till I can find a Zf. My questions is , if I drop the 4 speed in the truck now, Will a 5 sp[eed bolt right in when i find one? i dont want to have to madify drive shafts a second time. Is the 4 speed a hydraulic clutch like the zf? Are teh clutches the same on both manual transmissions?

I hate to loose overdrive, but I really need to get the 4x4 working on my truck to go an furthur on it.
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Thanks

pedals will NOT work from the 84.

Clutch is different as well

Not sure about the rest

Well dang, I dont want to buy a new clutch , just to replace it. Guess its back to the hunt, Thanks brad.

gunz said:

Well dang, I dont want to buy a new clutch , just to replace it. Guess its back to the hunt, Thanks brad.

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Unless you can use the clutch from the 84

You will have to have the 88 or newer pedals and hydraulics. flywheel for a zf5 is a dual mass so you will have to pick one of those up with the clutch with the flywheel. Check car-part.com you might find a cheap DMF or even a SMF on there. Transfer case will work the same regardless if its a slipe yoke or flange output

Cheeper Jeeper had some info on here about how to use relatively cheap 6.9 parts to make a SMF 6.9/ZF combo for 200-300 bucks if I remember right. In any case you want some 87-91 manual pedals. As far as I know it doesn't matter which transmission/engine. I've heard mixed info about the hydraulics.

i dont know i used my 84 pedals and it works dont know what be different there

yeah, whats the scoop on this pedal difference. I am about to put a zf in an 85 and knew about the flywheel and crossmember moving but hadn't heard that I need a pedal swap.

I don't remember what the difference is in the 80-86 pedals, but I know they won't work in the 87-91 pedals or mount. I raided an 83 4-speed truck when I did my swap. The clutch stuff can work, but you have to drill a couple holes to mount the clutch master cylinder. The slave cylinder is the same. The difference between the early master and later master cylinders is the bolt orientations. On one the holes are straight up and down and on the other they are at around a 15 - 30 degree angle.

Regarding driveshaft lengths I'm quite positive you would have to change them for the zf5 versus the 4-speed.

On the clutch I also thought I had heard of people using some of the 4-speed clutch stuff to make a solid flywheel for the zf.

Do what I did for overdrive and add a US gear into the mix. Or a Gearvendors. then you get an 8 speed not just a 5 speed.

double post

junk said:

I don't remember what the difference is in the 80-86 pedals, but I know they won't work in the 87-91 pedals or mount. I raided an 83 4-speed truck when I did my swap. The clutch stuff can work, but you have to drill a couple holes to mount the clutch master cylinder. The slave cylinder is the same. The difference between the early master and later master cylinders is the bolt orientations. On one the holes are straight up and down and on the other they are at around a 15 - 30 degree angle.

Regarding driveshaft lengths I'm quite positive you would have to change them for the zf5 versus the 4-speed.

On the clutch I also thought I had heard of people using some of the 4-speed clutch stuff to make a solid flywheel for the zf.

Do what I did for overdrive and add a US gear into the mix. Or a Gearvendors. then you get an 8 speed not just a 5 speed.

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Ok If I am understanding this the later model pedals won't mount in the early cabs. since I have an early cab with the correct pedals I shouldn't have any problems with my zf install. Correct?

Shadetreemechanic said:

Ok If I am understanding this the later model pedals won't mount in the early cabs. since I have an early cab with the correct pedals I shouldn't have any problems with my zf install. Correct?

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That is the way I am understanding it. What matters is that the pedals are for the correct era of pickup. (ex: 80-86 or 87-91) Correct me if I am wrong.

The differences in the pedals relates to how the dash mounts to the pedals. IIRC some people have grafted/hacked a brick-nose dashboard onto a set of pedals from an '80-'86 truck, but for the dash to mount properly, you need to use a set of pedals meant for that model year truck i.e. '80-'86, '87-'91, and '91-'94 (I don't know if newer OBS truck pedal assemblies will work, because of the air bag).

However, the transmission does not care what pedal assembly's being used. It doesn't even care what master cylinder's being used...and, for that matter, I reused my T-19 slave cylinder with my ZF and it's been working perfectly for over 6 years now I didn't do a thing to my clutch hydraulics or my pedal assembly.

IIRC the issue is that gunz wants to swap from an auto to a manual and was thinking about using an '80-'86 pedal assembly. That won't "properly" work; however, he can put an '87-'91 pedal assembly in his truck, use it with the T-19, and he'll be fine. I don't know about the differences with the later clutch master cylinder, but he should be able to use the same one for the T-19 that he would for the ZF.

junk said:

Regarding driveshaft lengths I'm quite positive you would have to change them for the zf5 versus the 4-speed.

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In my experience, it depends on whether the truck's a 4x4 or a 2 wheel drive. I knew a guy who swapped from a 2WD C6 to a 2WD ZF and ended up needing the driveshaft from the donor truck. At the same time, I swapped from a 4x4 T-19 to a 4x4 ZF, and the two transmissions are the exact same length. I re-used the BW 13-45 transfer case that was originally on my triuck, and I reused my original driveshafts without any modifications, and again, after over 6 years, things have been working perfectly.

ummmmm, I have 89 pedals in my 86 no issues