Finally got around to testing, and then replacing the glow plugs.. 4 stuck.

IDIBRONCO

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I've never been inside a flywheel cover so I'm not sure I'll know what I'll be looking at.
Normally, I'd be willing to remove mine tomorrow and take pictures, but since I tried (unsuccessfully) to cut off my left thumb at work this morning, I won't be doing anything like that for a while. In fact, I can barely type right now.
I don't quite understand the direction of movement I am looking for from the clutch to test the flywheel.
Imagine that you're looking at the back side of it. Clockwise and counter clockwise movement.
Now I'm at 9600 feet and its currently 15 degrees out. I just assumed I'm running rich hence the grey smoke until it warms up. That make sense or am I wrong? The smoke seems to be worse when it is colder out. Once the truck is warm it mostly disappears, at idle I might have a slight amount of grey smoke coming out the exhaust.
Wrong. Diesels don't run rich/lean like gas engines do. If your timing is 15* out, advanced or retarded, it's WAY too far out of time. Ideally, you shouldn't have any smoke out of your exhaust at a warm idle.
I figure with my limited knowledge if I'm changing the DMF to a new SMF then I need a new clutch.
Yes.
Don't I also need a new clutch if I drop the tranny and have it rebuilt?
Ideally, yes. If it still looks good, you can reuse the clutch, but it's best if you replace it at that time. I say that, but I've been running the same SMF kit since 2006 and it's in it's third vehicle. I don't tow very often and it's rare that I tow heavy loads when I do tow.
When I was working on these for a living, my boss had a 1995 F350 that he towed heavily with. The DMF went bad at about 205,000 miles. The clutch could have been reused, but since it was getting a new flywheel, it got a new clutch. He didn't buy the truck new. He also only used it a couple of years before he traded up to a '99 model F350.
 

MJGenay

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Normally, I'd be willing to remove mine tomorrow and take pictures, but since I tried (unsuccessfully) to cut off my left thumb at work this morning, I won't be doing anything like that for a while. In fact, I can barely type right now.
Jesus, sorry. That'll mess things up for awhile.
Imagine that you're looking at the back side of it. Clockwise and counter clockwise movement.
Roger
Wrong. Diesels don't run rich/lean like gas engines do. If your timing is 15* out, advanced or retarded, it's WAY too far out of time. Ideally, you shouldn't have any smoke out of your exhaust at a warm idle.
15 degrees temperature outside. I was under the impression that cold these should smoke? I need to have this timed?
New clutch it is. If this is actually the issue. It also appears I need to drop the tranny for this. That either means more tools, or paying someone. This is one of those times where I'd rather pay someone as I don't know what I'm doing but may be forced to do it myself.
Ideally, yes. If it still looks good, you can reuse the clutch, but it's best if you replace it at that time. I say that, but I've been running the same SMF kit since 2006 and it's in it's third vehicle. I don't tow very often and it's rare that I tow heavy loads when I do tow.
When I was working on these for a living, my boss had a 1995 F350 that he towed heavily with. The DMF went bad at about 205,000 miles. The clutch could have been reused, but since it was getting a new flywheel, it got a new clutch. He didn't buy the truck new. He also only used it a couple of years before he traded up to a '99 model F350.
Got it. Thanks for all the help. Question for you. Can I drive this thing or am I risking damage? I'm assuming since it only rattles at low idle its not that bad yet?
 

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I have heard of the rare occasion when one of the springs fly out and get caught between the engine block and the front of the flywheel. I don't think it causes permanent damage but it scores up the back of the block pretty good.

I think I would leave the cover off if I continued to drive it. I have been running for years without the bottom cover on the flywheel. If the new clutch you get is one of the oversize types, then the bottom over won't fit anymore anyway.
 

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I read some stuff where if the flywheel breaks it takes the transmission case with it. I just haven't been able to find enough information as to how far along in the progression towards "oh ****" I am at...
 

IDIBRONCO

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15 degrees temperature outside. I was under the impression that cold these should smoke? I need to have this timed?
It probably will for a time until the cylinders get up to temperature. After that, at 15* air temp, it shouldn't. I thought that you were saying that the timing was now at 15*. If you don't know where it's at, it still wouldn't hurt to have your timing checked. The timing should be checked every so often anyway. These aren't like a gas engine with a distributor. The timing is set by a completely mechanical means. As the pump and injectors work, they eventually wear. As they wear, the timing will change which it should be checked every so often. This is also why using a good fuel additive is important. The sulfur in the older diesel was used to lubricate the internals of the pumps and injectors. That is no longer available in highway diesel. The fuel additive will add lubrication back into your fuel which will increase the lifetime of our pumps and injectors. I'm not going to put out a number for checking the timing because I honestly don't know a good one.
Can I drive this thing or am I risking damage?
Yes you can still drive the truck. Are you risking damage? Maybe, but how much of a risk it is, I can't say.
I read some stuff where if the flywheel breaks it takes the transmission case with it.
I don't believe that these flywheels can break like that (anything's possible though). As the springs wear and compress, the rattle/shaking will get worse. The springs themselves can and do actually break and then fall out or get thrown out of the flywheel like franklin2 mentioned. There is a friction "disc" that holds the two pieces of the flywheel together and that can fail. If that happens, they you won't be able to drive the truck because it will act like you have the clutch pedal pushed in all the time, or it will act like the truck's in neutral. Either way you want to think of it, the engine power won't be able to be put to the transmission because there won't be any connection between the engine and transmission. I think that it's possible that if someone kept driving with a bad DMF flywheel for long enough, that the slamming of the flywheel could do something to the internals of the engine. It can't be good on the engine for that to keep happening. I would also guess that the bolts that hole the flywheel to the crankshaft would break first, but I also don't know about that. Yes you can still use your truck, but the lifetime of that flywheel is limited. Of course, that's assuming that the flywheel is bad. That's why I suggested checking it out first. Even if you have to pay someone else to do it. A transmission shop may be a better place to look than a diesel shop that doesn't know about our old engines.
 

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It probably will for a time until the cylinders get up to temperature. After that, at 15* air temp, it shouldn't. I thought that you were saying that the timing was now at 15*. If you don't know where it's at, it still wouldn't hurt to have your timing checked. The timing should be checked every so often anyway. These aren't like a gas engine with a distributor. The timing is set by a completely mechanical means. As the pump and injectors work, they eventually wear. As they wear, the timing will change which it should be checked every so often. This is also why using a good fuel additive is important. The sulfur in the older diesel was used to lubricate the internals of the pumps and injectors. That is no longer available in highway diesel. The fuel additive will add lubrication back into your fuel which will increase the lifetime of our pumps and injectors. I'm not going to put out a number for checking the timing because I honestly don't know a good one.
I've heard of a decent diesel shop down in Buena Vista that I'll call and ask about the timing. The smoke does disappear but it wouldn't hurt to have it checked.
Yes you can still drive the truck. Are you risking damage? Maybe, but how much of a risk it is, I can't say.
Understood.
I don't believe that these flywheels can break like that (anything's possible though). As the springs wear and compress, the rattle/shaking will get worse. The springs themselves can and do actually break and then fall out or get thrown out of the flywheel like franklin2 mentioned. There is a friction "disc" that holds the two pieces of the flywheel together and that can fail. If that happens, they you won't be able to drive the truck because it will act like you have the clutch pedal pushed in all the time, or it will act like the truck's in neutral. Either way you want to think of it, the engine power won't be able to be put to the transmission because there won't be any connection between the engine and transmission. I think that it's possible that if someone kept driving with a bad DMF flywheel for long enough, that the slamming of the flywheel could do something to the internals of the engine. It can't be good on the engine for that to keep happening. I would also guess that the bolts that hole the flywheel to the crankshaft would break first, but I also don't know about that. Yes you can still use your truck, but the lifetime of that flywheel is limited. Of course, that's assuming that the flywheel is bad. That's why I suggested checking it out first. Even if you have to pay someone else to do it. A transmission shop may be a better place to look than a diesel shop that doesn't know about our old engines.
I've also heard of a decent transmission shop down in BV. Guess I'll be talking to them about this. When I mentioned the synchros were gone from 5th to 4th to my mechanic he just wanted to put a whole new transmission in there. Hoping I can find someone willing to rebuild it, cheaper.
 

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All this about the DMF is dependent on the clutch making it disappear when I try starting it. Considering heading to work late and maybe giving it a go this morning. Not sure if the engine will have been cold enough after sitting in the garage all night. Might still have some warmth to it.
 

IDIBRONCO

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Buena Vista isn't that big of a town, so I'm impressed that there's those businesses there. That transmission shop may be willing to check the flywheel if the diesel shop isn't willing.
 

MJGenay

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Buena Vista isn't that big of a town, so I'm impressed that there's those businesses there. That transmission shop may be willing to check the flywheel if the diesel shop isn't willing.
It is a metropolis compared to us. They have probably 8 different mechanics between them and Johnson Village... we have two.
 

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Well, I just tried it and it still rattles with the clutch in. It might be a little worse with the clutch out but hard to tell.

On the whole, after removing the wire to the cold timing advance plug, the rattling does not seem as violent, loud, or last as long. Could be I'm just overly sensitive or something too.

I'm guessing this negates the DMF so back to maybe a timing issue?

What should I be asking these mechanics to make sure that they are going to properly time the engine and not just do it based on sound?
 

Brian VT

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From the OilBurners Timing Registry:

State: CO Colorado
City: Boulder

This information is not verified, but I have spoken with a partner of this shop, and was assured their diesel tech was experienced at timing IDI's. He did not know what equipment they had. Because it is a business, I'm not posting any pricing. Call for more info.

Mountain Auto Repair
4727 North Broadway
Boulder, CO 80304
303-449-0581

and:

Posting for a customer of mines
Diesel Repair & Performance LLC
303-841-6527
State: Colorado
City: Parker
Pulse method
 

IDIBRONCO

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Well, I just tried it and it still rattles with the clutch in. It might be a little worse with the clutch out but hard to tell.

I'm guessing this negates the DMF so back to maybe a timing issue?
Since the entirety of the clutch ib attached to and only makes contact with one part of the flywheel, this thought process makes no sense whatsoever to me. Can someone please explain it to me?
 

MJGenay

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From the OilBurners Timing Registry:

State: CO Colorado
City: Boulder

This information is not verified, but I have spoken with a partner of this shop, and was assured their diesel tech was experienced at timing IDI's. He did not know what equipment they had. Because it is a business, I'm not posting any pricing. Call for more info.

Mountain Auto Repair
4727 North Broadway
Boulder, CO 80304
303-449-0581

and:

Posting for a customer of mines
Diesel Repair & Performance LLC
303-841-6527
State: Colorado
City: Parker
Pulse method
Thank you. Unfortunately all of those are 2.5 hrs or so away so I'm going to have to use them as a backup. Going to call a couple diesel shops within an hour tomorrow.
 

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