Injector pump longevity

Booyah45828

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We burn all our wmo in the oil furnace at the shop, my goal is to burn wmo as a road fuel, but the only diesel vehicle I have is the school bus, and I'm not about to daily drive that. Eventually I hope to build/buy a diesel powered car/wagon or truck, anything that's shorter then the bus. Because of that goal, I've researched a lot about wmo as a fuel the last few years. With that said, the following is all my opinion on the matter, argue or correct if you want.

The best scenario for using WMO as a fuel is oil distillation, as that removes 100% of the impurities from the oil. It also removes 100% of the additive package from the oil as well. Distillation makes for a super clean product, which rivals or beats pump diesel itself. Centrifuging can do a good job, so long as you make enough passes, or do it slow enough. I've seen guys fuge enough to get a pretty clear end product. Settling and filtering can work well, but won't be as good as distillation or fuging. Filters can only get so small before their flow rates dive. At a minimum you should remove all entrained water from the oil, as that will cause lubrication issues, ruining a pump in a hurry.

How clean of a product do you actually need, and how will it effect pump life? That all varies. I know of guys that dump their motor oil straight out of the pan into their tank, and I would not recommend doing that. I'd prefer fuging at a minimum, and running it in an IDI based engine. Burning wmo in an IDI shouldn't create injector cooking issues like it can/would in a DI engine. I do know certain shops won't accept an injection pump as a core if it was used with wmo or wvo. Unless you're distilling, pump wear will for sure go up running wmo, whether it's significant or not depends on how clean you get it. Head and rotor wear for sure goes up as they are super close tolerance units and any contamination will cause wear between them. Same with the advance piston and bore, because that's the lowest point in the pump and subject to collecting anything that settles out. Does all that mean you'll only get 50k miles out of a pump vs a typical 100k+ miles out of a pump? I'm not certain. But pump life will certainly be negatively effected. Even engine life is negatively effected due to soot in the motor oil. That's why bypass oil filters are a popular option on HD engines, and are becoming standard on some of your newer designs (paccar mx13).

Also, fwiw, I read somewhere that the military found out in Iraq that burning wmo in their generators negatively effected piston ring life, due to the depositing of the oil's extreme pressure additives on the cylinder walls when the oil was burned. Supposedly those additives caused the rings to scuff and wipe out cylinders in the process. I'm not sure if the IDI with a prechamber would have that problem, but it's something to keep in mind when filtering/burning wmo.
 

Jesus Freak

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We burn all our wmo in the oil furnace at the shop, my goal is to burn wmo as a road fuel, but the only diesel vehicle I have is the school bus, and I'm not about to daily drive that. Eventually I hope to build/buy a diesel powered car/wagon or truck, anything that's shorter then the bus. Because of that goal, I've researched a lot about wmo as a fuel the last few years. With that said, the following is all my opinion on the matter, argue or correct if you want.

The best scenario for using WMO as a fuel is oil distillation, as that removes 100% of the impurities from the oil. It also removes 100% of the additive package from the oil as well. Distillation makes for a super clean product, which rivals or beats pump diesel itself. Centrifuging can do a good job, so long as you make enough passes, or do it slow enough. I've seen guys fuge enough to get a pretty clear end product. Settling and filtering can work well, but won't be as good as distillation or fuging. Filters can only get so small before their flow rates dive. At a minimum you should remove all entrained water from the oil, as that will cause lubrication issues, ruining a pump in a hurry.

How clean of a product do you actually need, and how will it effect pump life? That all varies. I know of guys that dump their motor oil straight out of the pan into their tank, and I would not recommend doing that. I'd prefer fuging at a minimum, and running it in an IDI based engine. Burning wmo in an IDI shouldn't create injector cooking issues like it can/would in a DI engine. I do know certain shops won't accept an injection pump as a core if it was used with wmo or wvo. Unless you're distilling, pump wear will for sure go up running wmo, whether it's significant or not depends on how clean you get it. Head and rotor wear for sure goes up as they are super close tolerance units and any contamination will cause wear between them. Same with the advance piston and bore, because that's the lowest point in the pump and subject to collecting anything that settles out. Does all that mean you'll only get 50k miles out of a pump vs a typical 100k+ miles out of a pump? I'm not certain. But pump life will certainly be negatively effected. Even engine life is negatively effected due to soot in the motor oil. That's why bypass oil filters are a popular option on HD engines, and are becoming standard on some of your newer designs (paccar mx13).

Also, fwiw, I read somewhere that the military found out in Iraq that burning wmo in their generators negatively effected piston ring life, due to the depositing of the oil's extreme pressure additives on the cylinder walls when the oil was burned. Supposedly those additives caused the rings to scuff and wipe out cylinders in the process. I'm not sure if the IDI with a prechamber would have that problem, but it's something to keep in mind when filtering/burning wmo.
Good stuff. I'd be scared to death of running a WMO still, but hey! If you do it post pictures.
 

Far Right

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Yeah ok thanks guys, so I’ll be chasing a specific Chevy db2, even with stupid postage of like $300 from US to aust it’s still over 1k cheaper to buy a fully rebuilt pump from the US than over here. Nuts, n I’m guessing I could pick up a second hand one from a wrecking yard over there pretty cheap considering how many military hummers in years gone by have run these, referb kits for like $50, with the price of diesel here id be miles in front even if pumps dont hold up more than a few tanks of oil, cost me $384 at the moment to fill my Ute. Annnnnd it’s not going to get any better,
 

Far Right

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I’ve got plans here I bought of an Australian bloke to build a still/fracking unit to make clean diesel, it’s a big job to make and it’s a Smokey sooty operation as it burns the run off oil as fuel for the heat, I believe set up right it’d be safe. But huge job too make. And it’s slow, takes about 12hrs of babysitting to get a 44, and it’d take the right wind to not get into dramas with authorities and neighbours, I’ll prob still get this built at some stage but 12hrs work for just over a full up on the Ute is sort out weighing the Benifits, wmo fuging is much less hands on, no need to watch it with a fire extinguisher
 

Booyah45828

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Good stuff. I'd be scared to death of running a WMO still, but hey! If you do it post pictures.
More do it then you might think. I believe they run it under a vacuum, so no explosion risk there. Some have even tried to do it with plastic, but I feel you'd have to chemically break it down to a liquid first before heating/distilling. A guy locally to me supposedly has a patent for it, but can't seem to get the operation up and running. I feel a lot of money would be available if you could turn recycled plastic into diesel fuel.

Here is a site that has more info on distillation.
https://www.simplecentrifuge.com/gallery-series-56.html?series=56

There's also a handful of youtube videos of others doing it as well. Biggest issue is the energy required for heating and disposal of the leftover tar that's produced. But if you have an unlimited supply of wmo, you have an unlimited supply of energy in my eyes.
 

Jesus Freak

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More do it then you might think. I believe they run it under a vacuum, so no explosion risk there. Some have even tried to do it with plastic, but I feel you'd have to chemically break it down to a liquid first before heating/distilling. A guy locally to me supposedly has a patent for it, but can't seem to get the operation up and running. I feel a lot of money would be available if you could turn recycled plastic into diesel fuel.

Here is a site that has more info on distillation.
https://www.simplecentrifuge.com/gallery-series-56.html?series=56

There's also a handful of youtube videos of others doing it as well. Biggest issue is the energy required for heating and disposal of the leftover tar that's produced. But if you have an unlimited supply of wmo, you have an unlimited supply of energy in my eyes.
I follow the logic, but I'd rather just replace an injection pump every now and then. I watched a video for a minute and it got more complicated than I was interested in. I now officially have a centerfuge from PA biodiesel, but to make it work I gotta spend $500-1000 to create a whole other system to monitor, and make room and all that. So I'm fine with filtering, no real input and it works for what I want. One day I'll check this centerfuge out, but $$$ is hard to come by and when I get it I got other stuff that's more important to spend it on.
 

Patrol

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My thinking is that I't shouldn't effect your injection pump if its clean, as it's not getting bunt there, just passing through and if you run a duel tank setup it will get diesel washed on startup and shut down. Only concern would be viscosity causing drag/ wear but my feeling is its oil and should counter that somewhat. I'm planning on running injection cleaner in my mix periodically as a cheep extra to help injector longevity
 

Far Right

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Yeah I remember having an old 2h land cruiser 22yrs ago n a set of injectors were $70 for 6 n took about 10mins too change but usually a splash of injector cleaner in the fuel fixed all the issues, annnnnnd then DI ingines showed up n overtook almost like petrols did, n then common rail engines showed up n did overtake like petrols do, and then I needed injectors or a fuel rail n said fuuuuuuu…….,k this I’m out, back to the old Mech pump. My NA 6.5 doesn’t run fast like a petrol engine but it’s way easier to live with than a2.8L hilux or a 3.9L land cruiser ever was, can fix and diagnose it all pretty quickly, no scan tool required, n now it’s guna run coal for fuel take that UNESCO
 

ut99dot1

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I dont think the mechanical injection pump will have any difficulties if;
1. The oil is not too thick, so either dilute it or heat it up
2. Not contaminated with crap, so don't run the thickest (bottom of barrel stuff) and filter (I use 1micron)

At my non-turbo car I get a lot of carbon fouling (I heard turbo's have higher combustion temperatures so it cleans itself up), so every 5k miles I remove injectors and chisel out all the carbon in the pre-injection chambers.
 

ttman4

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Well I been using WMO mix for a while now, since early '03. Heat, Clean Oil, & build a hot engine fire ever 2-3 weeks, & ALWAYS carry extra F Filter with me.
Ever 2-3-4 weeks I try to go for a run with my trailer up a hill & get engine good & warm/hot to help burn carbon out etc.
Also HEAT is your friend!!!! I have heaters rigged up into both factory tanks as well as my bed tank, then a 30 plate heat exchanger just before fuel goes into filter. I get fuel & mix as hot as I can before it goes into IP to help thin everything.
Start up on my diesel tank & 1-2 miles flip over to my Mix tank. 1-2 miles before get home flip over to diesel tank.
However I feel that in long run my IP & injectors don't last as long burning mix, but in big picture I'm still way ahead in $$$$$!!!
In early years my '90 7.3 engine with ATS 088 used to get 18-22MPG. at about 90-100,000 miles I be down to 14-15 MPG. Get IP & injectors bebuilt MPG back up. Fuel not it used to be tho.
With my '90 with my '94 IDIT factory engine (used one I stuck in with unknown miles) I started out bout 17-18 MPG. Put about 70,000 miles on it & now down to bout 10-11.
 
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