Drum Brakes (no wait, it's good news)

david85

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Most of us are not fans of drum brakes but there seems to be plenty of threads discussing the problems with drum brakes on these trucks, in particular.

Most of the comments seem to be about the automatic adjusters not working. I was also having problems with the parking brake not working very well. In fact, it never really worked all that well since I got the truck roughly 15 years ago, and gradually got worse even after several attempts to replace the cables. After overhauling the brakes on my Dad's truck recently (Ranger) and seeing the improvement, I decided to do the same with mine. I also had a leaky axle seal to replace.

Here's what I found...eventually.

The parking brake mechanism itself was not engaging the tops of the shoes correctly (see photo). Instead of directly engaging the shoes, the mechanism was pushing underneath the shoe. This caused the shoes to deploy against the drum at a weird angle, without applying much force to the drum. So the parking brake pedal still had resistance, but the effect on stopping the truck was close to nill.

I also recall many years ago having issues with the drum brakes sometimes dragging. This might explain why, since the jammed mechanism would prevent the drums from retracting properly. Bottom line, I was apparently relying mostly on front brakes for all these years. The E-brake is now strong enough to easily lock the rear tires on hot, dry pavement. Just for giggles I even put the truck in 4wd and hit the E-brake. It was enough to still chirp the tires and stop the truck very rapidly.

I haven't put too many miles on the new brakes, but the adjusters seem to be working.

Apologies for not taking photos during this round. It took several tries to get it right. The rear cylinders were replaced, some of the rear lines had to be replaced, and the new motorcraft drums had to be machined due to being out of round. Way more work than I bargained for but seems to have paid off. It took about a week for me to get used to how strong the brakes were compared to before.

Anyway, long story short, check the mechanism I pointed out with an arrow in the attached photo. It might be part of your problem, if you're having similar issues with your F250's drums. And yes, a new hardware kit was also installed at the same time.
 

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12pilgrim

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Thats an excellent write up on the drum brakes.

Funny story: I bought my truck with a slight squeak in the rear while moving. Turns out, previous owner had left the parking brake pushed in all the way probably for years and the arm that engages it had almost completely severed the hub (the squeak was them rubbing)! Check out the height on the Ebay replacement hub on the right vs what I pulled off the truck.. scary stuff!
 

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Big Bart

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David 85,

Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts. I read frequently that members are having brake challenges. That the most common issue, unsatisfactory braking, is due to the rears are out of adjustment. To your point the adjusters are not working, thus the rears are coming on late. But sounds like you maybe had some clogged brake lines. And your brake lever was not working correctl. Something members should also look for. (Lack of or slow brake fluid when bleeding the rear wheel cylinders.)

I personally check and adjust my drums every 2-3 oil changes to make sure they stay adjusted. I have not had issue with a lack of braking or my e-brake. My truck stops great without a load and stops sufficiently when towing a heavy load. (With trailer brakes assisting.) I do not expect it to stop like a 2022 F250, because it’s a 1988 F250.

I will be replacing the front brakes soon as I have heard the brake warning tab rubbing and squeaking for a couple months now. Since the truck had somewhat rusty rotors when I bought it, I do expect to have increased braking in the front after. I plan to check the rears to see how much brake material is left.

Many years ago it was common to fit the brake shoes to the drum when doing drum brakes. (Back in the 40’s, 50’s, and 60’s many vehicles had drum brakes in the front too.). Remove some material so more of the shoe was riding on the drum, thus better stopping out of the gate. VS today waiting for the shoe to wear before it all contacts. When in the 80’s it came out that asbestus was causing lung cancer that practiced was used less and less. Likely only old school guys still doing so today at their own risk.

It’s sad after all these years the drum manufacturers cannot make a drum that is true. That you had to turn yours to true them.
 

Cubey

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I lost about $50 on badly made, heavy duty brakes shoes in 2020. I ordered them early in the year but didn't get around to test driving until October.

The upper ear on the left side shoe wasn't made right. It should be the same as the one on the right:

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It was getting caught. You can see where the paint was getting scratched away, the tab on the moving part was hopping up on top of the ear of the brake shoe instead of pushing it.

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At that point, I was in a hurry and got cheap bonded ones from O'Reilly that were made properly.

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And it wasn't a fluke. Someone else has since complained the same thing. First review is me, second is someone else:

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david85

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Looks like the shoes may have been part of the problem. Glad I'm not alone in having this happen, but also sorry to hear about so many problems!

Cubey, your second photo shows exactly what was happening with mine, only mine was that way for many years and I didn't realize. Thanks for sharing, because now everyone can see what it looks like.

Bart, the rear fluid was low and I found the cylinder seals had failed. I topped up the brake fluid and was immediately shocked at how much of a difference it made (and how much I ultimately neglected the brakes). The rear brakes did work after topping up the fluid but after seeing the poor state of everything, I decided to overhaul it all.

Pilgrim, the lever was actually starting to do this on my setup. Likely the result of me trying to tighten the adjusters. I also was never able to get aftermarket cables to fit...now I know why.
 
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1mouse3

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interesting thought you all got here, will check this out before I get my f250 going again. I could never get the rear brakes to work right and was constantly fighting them, there slightly loose so they dont drag. If I get the adjustment right so the e-brake works, there will be a odd vibration and the rear brakes get hot after 30 minutes of driving. I have 4 wheel drums on the f100 and can get them to work right when there adjusted first try.
 

Cubey

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Oh and I should add that the catching was just from normal braking, not even parking brake use.
 

MadMac

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Unfortunately for me I don't have the tools or time... but share ongoing issues with the rear brakes. Pads, then drums, rebuild kits, then slave cyls - all separately done, sometimes more than once. Still doesn't work right after four R&R's of the rear axles. This month - I'm chasing a suddenly hard pegal push back (plenty of vacuum on a <5K power brake booster). Rear brakes seem to be an endless drip drip of problems, no pun intended, which makes me just want to convert to discs.

I'm left thinking about manufacturers / distributers over optimistic assignment of their replacement parts to the index of vehicles that part supports. My list of bad parts from reputable suppliers now includes; Glow plugs, brake parts, fuel line parts, tanks, wipers, lights, alternators, numerious accessories, starters. No, I'm not perfect - but I do go to considerable effort to lookup the stock part numbers in matching Ford Parts manuals.

Yes - in particular WRT these old Fords - I'm a 'nube. Still, I make these observations with the perspective of someone who has spent a lifetime trying to simplify data and systems complexity, key here: learning not to trust the data quality underlying what appears to be a system of record.
 

Cubey

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I'm left thinking about manufacturers / distributers over optimistic assignment of their replacement parts to the index of vehicles that part supports.

What's worse is when a part fits but they claim it doesn't.

This part comes up for early 90s F series (so still IDIs) but not for 80s F or E series. This is the correct one for my 85 E350 with a Dana 70, even though it claims it's for Sterling. I only found it because I looked up the part for a 93 F-350. It won't come up for my 87 F250 with a Sterling either, as you can see at the link:

 

Big Bart

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Unfortunately for me I don't have the tools or time... but share ongoing issues with the rear brakes. Pads, then drums, rebuild kits, then slave cyls - all separately done, sometimes more than once. Still doesn't work right after four R&R's of the rear axles. This month - I'm chasing a suddenly hard pegal push back (plenty of vacuum on a <5K power brake booster). Rear brakes seem to be an endless drip drip of problems, no pun intended, which makes me just want to convert to discs.

I'm left thinking about manufacturers / distributers over optimistic assignment of their replacement parts to the index of vehicles that part supports. My list of bad parts from reputable suppliers now includes; Glow plugs, brake parts, fuel line parts, tanks, wipers, lights, alternators, numerious accessories, starters. No, I'm not perfect - but I do go to considerable effort to lookup the stock part numbers in matching Ford Parts manuals.

Yes - in particular WRT these old Fords - I'm a 'nube. Still, I make these observations with the perspective of someone who has spent a lifetime trying to simplify data and systems complexity, key here: learning not to trust the data quality underlying what appears to be a system of record.
I share this all the time on this site. Things have changed in our world.

Do not assume a new or rebuilt part works out of the box. The quality of many parts has gone down, quality control has also gone down. New and rebuilt defective parts are sold every day.

We got 2 bad rebuilt alternators out of the box at O’Reilly’s recently for my sons Ford Galaxie.
 

MadMac

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Since I posted two weeks ago about the catalog errors - I’m zero for - a bunch of parts not fitting… I’ll name some names if I remember… I’m feeling like Homer, with out doubt. DOH. Still, as a database guy - the industry can do better than this…

— Covercraft Dash Pad - not even close. Gave me such a bad time - its in the trash.
— Dorman Lens (L+R) - installed - internals don’t align to aim correctly, far too much diffusion.
— Dorman Bulb Retainer - which came with the lens - so deep he LEDs have to be stuff ed in.
— Left and Right mirrors - claimed to be the right fit - not even close. At least its obvious.
— SEALight LED Lamps - 9007 - do not fit in the in the stock Ford retainers. Granted they were 25 years brittle…
— Summit Racing’s description of the Ford Parts Catalogs is so wrong - that one I’m sending this one back.

I knew the Dorman stuff was maybe, maybe, and a chance - but given what a ****** it is to R&R the lenses - and that I’m going to have to do it again when I find better parts… it warrants mention…

At any rate - enough whining.
 

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