Does this sound like my IDI is missing?

Neal Evans

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(link contains a 1 min video that is too large to post here)

IDIs are new to me; in my naiveté I just assumed this is how an IDI Diesel sounds. A local mechanic installed some new fuel lines for me, and mentioned that it was missing, asking if this was something new or perhaps had gotten introduced from their work...

If it is missing, what are suggested next things to check out? He seemed to think the IP needs to be replaced...
 

JParson

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Did the mechanic check the timing of the IP? New lines can introduce air into the system. Was the return lines changed as well? If not they can introduce air into the system as well. Air intrusion in a diesel will cause a miss. If it is missing, you can crack each injector line one at a time with the engine running and listen for a change in the sound of the engine. Kind of like a gasser with spark plugs. If the IP has over 150,000 miles on it, it is probably getting tired. Is there any white smoke, black smoke, any smoke at idle? The slight vibration at idle leads me to timing maybe to advanced or to retarded. Timing an IP is kind of like a distrubtor on a gasser. Rotating it will adjust when each cylinder fires for a fine tuning. 7.3L IDI are by design a loud and clanky engine. Air intrusion is a big problem for the 7.3L IDI. I would for sure start there. Check all the return caps an the injectors for hard brittle lines and caps or fuel leaks at the caps. Just because they are not leaking fuel does not mean it is not sucking air. If it sits for a couple days and takes a while to start after sitting it is loosing prime due to sucking in air. I know this was long an drawn out but wanted to try and hit on everything that would cause a rough idle. Maybe some else will chime in with more knowledge than me.
 

Neal Evans

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By the way, a little tidbit to share. I had a leaky fuel return line/cap. Took it off and notice the top o-ring was damaged. I replaced with #11 from the Harbor Freight pack. Worked like a charm.
 

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Neal Evans

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Did the mechanic check the timing of the IP? New lines can introduce air into the system. Was the return lines changed as well? If not they can introduce air into the system as well. Air intrusion in a diesel will cause a miss. If it is missing, you can crack each injector line one at a time with the engine running and listen for a change in the sound of the engine. Kind of like a gasser with spark plugs. If the IP has over 150,000 miles on it, it is probably getting tired. Is there any white smoke, black smoke, any smoke at idle? The slight vibration at idle leads me to timing maybe to advanced or to retarded. Timing an IP is kind of like a distrubtor on a gasser. Rotating it will adjust when each cylinder fires for a fine tuning. 7.3L IDI are by design a loud and clanky engine. Air intrusion is a big problem for the 7.3L IDI. I would for sure start there. Check all the return caps an the injectors for hard brittle lines and caps or fuel leaks at the caps. Just because they are not leaking fuel does not mean it is not sucking air. If it sits for a couple days and takes a while to start after sitting it is loosing prime due to sucking in air. I know this was long an drawn out but wanted to try and hit on everything that would cause a rough idle. Maybe some else will chime in with more knowledge than me.
Thanks for the detailed reply! This forum is great.

No, didn't check the timing. That was my first thought. I have been meaning to try that one myself. (I really should have installed the new lines myself; but I had a break down and towed to the shop, so I just let them do it).

Black smoke at idle. It also smokes up pretty good at high load, e.g. going up a steep grade in 4th at ~2350 rpm...

I replaced all the return caps, injectors, and glowplugs myself. It took me a while (two return cap/line sets) to get it right (I think).

The sounds really didn't change after changing all this out. I have a video from when I first got it, and it sounded about the same then as it does now. To me, this points to timing...

It was getting about 11mpg before replacing fuel lines. I am waiting to refill to know if that has changed materially.
 

JParson

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I would just about bet that your IP timing is to advanced. The best way to time it is with a diesel pulse adapter and a timing light. Or you can retard it just a half of the thickness of a dime by loosing the IP using the 3 nuts holding the IP to the IP gear housing. If you do that always mark the IP where it is now. Should be a timing mark on top of the IP and on top of the IP gear housing.
 

JParson

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Retarding timing means turning the IP towards the driver side of the engine. Advancing timing goes to the passenger side of the engine.
 

IDIBRONCO

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The loud "thump" noise that you're hearing is perfectly normal. These engines all do that and I call it "intake pulse". To me, it sounds like your engine is idling pretty slowly and your tach seemed to show less than 500RPM (I don't necessarily put a lot of faith in tachometer readings). BEFORE you mess with your timing, turn up the idle speed. I'm also assuming that this was a cold start. If it was, your timing advance should probably be activated which gives it the extra clattery sound even at the low idle speed. Either your fast idle (high idle) solenoid isn't working or it, too, needs to be adjusted so that it actually raises your idle speed while it's activated. After doing the above mentioned things, then let us know how the engine sounds at idle. Then move on to the black smoke.
 

Old Goat

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Do not move the Injection Pump with the Engine running.

When installing the Injector caps, put all 4 together, then
place them as an assembly.
Doing them one at a time,,is slow, and you can possibly, maybe, end up with a leaky cap.
You don`t have to buy new return cap kits all the time.
McMaster-Carr has the "O" Rings in bags of 50 for around $8. Viton #111.

Goat
 

Neal Evans

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Thanks, everyone. Y'all gave me some good homework assignments.

@IDIBRONCO, on your suggestion, I'm going to start with idle speed adjustments before I tweak timing.

Thanks @Old Goat, I read/heard not to adjust timing with engine on. By the way, this seems like a good tutorial for adjusting IP timing:

Pump timing adjustment

(can you believe how clean that guy's engine is?)
 

Neal Evans

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I just read through the forum searching for 'air intrusion'. Here are my notes:

1. Symptoms of AI:
a. hard starting (runs better after air gets worked out of system because fuel has drained back into the tank before IP)
b. surging under load
c. black smoking when starting
d. black smoking under load?
e. sluggish performance
f. above issues when fuel level in tank goes below a certain level (e.g. 1/2 tank). (points to issue in fuel pickup in tank)

2. Air Intrusion usually is before the IP.
a. So, problems with return lines are normally not a source of AI. Air on the pressure side of the IP gets pushed back into the tank where the air just separates out from the fuel in the tank.

3. Sources of AI before the IP:
a. steel line from filter to IP
b. filter housing itself
c. line from lift pump to filter
d. lift pump itself
e. line from tank to lift pump
f. hardware in the fuel tank

Does that pretty much cover it?
 

Neal Evans

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By the way, I just tried a cold start. I see mostly grey/whitish smoke, not black.

Going down the list for #3:
a. no obvious issues in steel line from filter to IP.
b. filter used to leak, but I fixed by deleting the heater. No leaks now.

c. Here are some pics of the life pump. Looks like I have some fairly substantial leaks. Looks like I have some issues to address here.
 

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JParson

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Brings back memorys of when I first bought my IDI. Those lift pumps are cheap around $30. Just make sure you get the arm under the camshaft when you install it in the block. I recommend not installing it dry. Put some assembly lube on the arm so it is not dry on the cam when you start the truck.
 
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