OIL PAN MODIFICATION FOR COLD WEATHER STARTING

CADHOWDY

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So I have an idea for a better cold start that could apply to other applications as well as a 6.9 and 7.3 IDI. Block heaters are generally a must if cold starts are below the -10C (14F) or so mark and there may be some opinion on whether it is better to have your heat in the cooling system or to have something to heat the oil in the oil pan. Typically if a guy were to try to use both heaters you end up tripping the breaker.

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The 6.9/7.3 block was built with a number of extra ports in the cooling system for various applications and obviously not all are used for the ford pickup trucks. What I'm trying to show here is what if a guy were to weld in a length of pipe with pipe thread on either end into a bottom corner in the oil pan (which ever clears the pickup tube) and then plumb each side up to the next coolant port on the side of the block. Looking at the coolant flow diagram I can't see how the new cross over would affect flow in the block for proper cooling. My thought is that, through convection, that leg of hose and pipe running through the oil will heat the oil. Therefore a guy only needs his block heater to heat both fluids. What are the thoughts on such a set up?
 

Farmer Rock

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I like the idea, especially seeing as you are in Canada, but is your block heater not sufficient? It's a good idea, but if one of those lines fail it won't be good at all, otherwise I guess it would work, but there's only one way to find out how well. I am assuming you run 5w in the winter?
Fwiw, it may just be easier changing a breaker out for a higher amp breaker and run both heaters.



Rock
 
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Farmer Rock

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Ooo, you can't do that if the wire is not large enough for the bigger breaker.
I understand that. But a lot of newer buildings run 12ga on a 20amp breaker, and in that case, you can run a 30amp. I guess I should've been clearer, but I wasn't saying just swap out the breaker under any circumstance, as that would definitely not be safe. Then again, 30amp breakers and 14ga isn't that uncommon unfortunately. I was mainly referring to 20 or 30amp breakers if the wire is adequate, not like a 50amp or something, but I definitely wasn't very clear, and I apologize for that.


Rock
 

IH-GM IDI

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Had a buddy that was stationed in Alaska. On his gas chevy the engine pan, tranny pan, and coolant all had heaters on them wired into a single plug and ran on a 10ga cord. I can't remember what wattage/amperage it all supposedly added up to but my understanding is it had to be on the special truck outlet
 

Farmer Rock

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So, I got to thinking about this....if the engine oil heater is roughly the same size as the block heater (1000 watts) a 20 amp breaker should handle that no problem. I think 2000 watts is somewhere around 16-17 volts. I have never run an engine oil heater on my trucks with the block heater, but I have run two truck block heaters off the same 30amp breaker many times without it tripping. That should be about the same I imagine, but the 30amp leaves plenty of headway.
For the OP,
Have you ran both heaters at once yet? Also what size breaker/wire are you dealing with? And sorry for getting kind of off topic here, I just wanted to check out the obvious things.


Rock
 

snicklas

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OK. It's been awhile, but let me break out the math....

The equation:

P=I*V - Power (in Watts) = Current (in Amps) multiplied by Voltage (in Volts).

We know the Voltage (120 Volts) and we know the Power (1500 Watts) (I think the block heaters are 1500 Watts)

So that gives us:

I = P / V (Power divided by Voltage)

I = 1500 / 120

I = 12.5 Amps for just the block heater (if the block heater is 1500 watts. If it were 1000 it would be 8.3 Amps

However, this does not take into account voltage/current drop in the drop cord, house wiring, plugs... etc....

Just remember, the current passing capability of a 25 foot 12 gauge drop cord and a 100 foot 12 gauge cord is not the same. There are charts out there for that.

That ends the class for today.

(Yes I have and electronics degree, and actually taught at ITT back in the day (before it turned into the sham it became))
 

DaveBen

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I knew you were knowledgeable in Electrical Engineering. Nice class lecture.
 

CADHOWDY

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Well part of what spurred this idea was a conversation with a customer who faced the breaker tripping problem while he was out on the rigs. He was unable to have both heaters plugged in because it would trip the breaker and mind you, at least one or two other people were usually plugged in at the same time. If he had the choice he would go with the oil pan heater every time over the block coolant heater. In my case I don't need to spend any more money on another heater as I already have an old school external circulation heater at 1000w that I would be able to plumb into this additional circuit. Another part of this is while your block may be toasty warm even in the real cold weather such as -20F / -28C and below, the oil slung down low in the bottom of the pan sure doesn't see enough of that heat. Its a bit of concern when the truck starts up pretty well but its almost a 10 second wait before you see any oil pressure.

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pafixitman

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OK. It's been awhile, but let me break out the math....

The equation:

P=I*V - Power (in Watts) = Current (in Amps) multiplied by Voltage (in Volts).

We know the Voltage (120 Volts) and we know the Power (1500 Watts) (I think the block heaters are 1500 Watts)

So that gives us:

I = P / V (Power divided by Voltage)

I = 1500 / 120

I = 12.5 Amps for just the block heater (if the block heater is 1500 watts. If it were 1000 it would be 8.3 Amps

However, this does not take into account voltage/current drop in the drop cord, house wiring, plugs... etc....

Just remember, the current passing capability of a 25 foot 12 gauge drop cord and a 100 foot 12 gauge cord is not the same. There are charts out there for that.

That ends the class for today.

(Yes I have and electronics degree, and actually taught at ITT back in the day (before it turned into the sham it became))
Easiest way to remember it for me is West Virginia...WVA...W=VA.
Watts equals volts times amps. Generally you will be dividing watts by 120 to get the amp rating. People also need to be conscious of what else is on the circuit and extension cord length and gauge.

Flipping houses I see the negative effect of overloaded circuits all of the time.
 

franklin2

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I understand that. But a lot of newer buildings run 12ga on a 20amp breaker, and in that case, you can run a 30amp. I guess I should've been clearer, but I wasn't saying just swap out the breaker under any circumstance, as that would definitely not be safe. Then again, 30amp breakers and 14ga isn't that uncommon unfortunately. I was mainly referring to 20 or 30amp breakers if the wire is adequate, not like a 50amp or something, but I definitely wasn't very clear, and I apologize for that.


Rock
Not sure where you are getting this, that is not legal. National electrical code specifies 14 gauge for a 15 amp circuit, 12 gauge wire for a 20 amp circuit, and 10 gauge wire for a 30 amp circuit.

Can you run a 30 amp circuit breaker on a 12 gauge wire? I am sure you could and get away with it, but it would not be to code. A 12 gauge wire would run warm with close to a 30 amp load on it.
 

Farmer Rock

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Not sure where you are getting this, that is not legal. National electrical code specifies 14 gauge for a 15 amp circuit, 12 gauge wire for a 20 amp circuit, and 10 gauge wire for a 30 amp circuit.

Can you run a 30 amp circuit breaker on a 12 gauge wire? I am sure you could and get away with it, but it would not be to code. A 12 gauge wire would run warm with close to a 30 amp load on it.
It may not be legal, but that's how a lot of structures around here are setup. Right or wrong, they have been like that for 30-40 years running 30amp breakers off 12ga. Keep in mind, I do agree that you need the correct size wire, and I overkill EVERYTHING, but I am also not the one who wired these places I speak of. Do I think a 30amp on 12ga is necessarily bad? No....
Would I wire it that way? No....
I am mainly going off of the given circumstances.


Rock
 

Booyah45828

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It's not a bad idea, but you have to realize that the block heater and pan heaters do different things.

The block heater heats the coolant and heads, which aids in starting an engine that is heat reliant for running(diesel). To get a diesel running, you need some sort of method to heat the combustion air, be it a block heater, glow plugs, grid heater, a webasto coolant heater, or starting fluid. Heating the combustion air is necessary for the engine to start.

Oil heaters on the other hand only heat the oil up to increase it's fluidity and pumpability. The only way it would help starting would be by increasing the cranking speed. IMO the simple solution for this would be to run an oil that, by design, flows better when it's cold out. Back in the day, HDEO were only available in thick viscosities. Now, we have 5w40 available on nearly every shelf, and even 0w40 oils are around. There are numerous youtube videos out there showing the flow differences between different oil viscosities.

40 years ago diesel engines switched from monograde 30/40 to multigrade 15w40. Diesel engines now spec a 5w40 or 5w30. So switch over to a 5w40 or a 0w40 and don't look back. Relying upon a pan heater or other work around to keep your oil as an oil and not a grease isn't smart when easier options are available IMO.
 
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