Getting harder to start. Slow cranks then faster cranks.

@Selahdoor

I was beginning to suspect the starter before your video. I have 2 brand new batteries, well cleaned and good connections. I even keep a battery tender on them when it is parked. So it was the leading thing I suspected.... now watching your video, that is similar to what mine does... so looks like I need to order a starter..... it will start, but it is like the batteries are dead. I know they aren't as I lost prime not long ago, so I had to crank longer than normal... and the starter was still slow.... but it cranked way longer that it should if the batteries were as low as they sounded. But, once the engine is warm... it seems to do ok until it cools off again. I had a Jetta that would do the same thing, and it was the starter. If I kept it plugged in, it would start, but if I let the block get cold, it needed a jump to start... I need to replaced the plug on the Excursion, so that is my next test to see if it is the starter.....

Scott, going off of your story here. I've know a handful of people who had a 7.3 PSD, both early ones and a late one. They swore up and down that even though their glow plugs were fine, the trucks wouldn't start under about 40*. They had to plug them in to get then to start below 40*. I wonder if that's the trouble that they were having too. On one, I even put new glow plugs in it for him and it still acted the same way.

CBRF3 said:

A 50-75 psi pop variance on our injectors is around 4-6 degrees of advance on the low injector and add the pump advancing well those cylinders would be way over advanced making for alot of knock / rattle.

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Huh? 50 psi pop difference makes 4-6* timing difference? If that's true we are all screwed cause nobody even offers it better than 50psi variance. Did you mean 500 psi?

I should say... If you have the old, original style starter like I did, don't waste your time trying to get to that top bolt, to remove the starter... Without taking off the wiring first. I could have saved a good 15 to 20 minutes if I had just gone straight to removing the wiring first.


Scott and others...

The difference with this starter is amazing! I went out there this morning. Totally cold, first thing in the morning, start... Did the normal GP run. Turned the key, and BOOM! She started right up. Ruhruhruhboom!

That was about a third of the time it normally takes to RE-start the truck after visiting a grocery store, after a trip to town.

And now... When warmed up and in town like that... Barely tap the key, and bam, she is running. Instantly.

And here, I thought I had a 'normal' starting truck. (Up until the slow stuff began to make it difficult to start.)

I would venture a guess that a LOT of the starting problems people have, thinking they need better GPs, or batteries, or cables, or whatever... Could be solved with one of these starters.


Josh... I do think it is the real problem, no matter what the numbers are. I'm going to have to get some new injectors. Probably pretty soon, before the one or more cylinders being hammered, out of synch with the others, causes real problems inside the engine.

IDIBRONCO said:

Scott, going off of your story here. I've know a handful of people who had a 7.3 PSD, both early ones and a late one. They swore up and down that even though their glow plugs were fine, the trucks wouldn't start under about 40*. They had to plug them in to get then to start below 40*. I wonder if that's the trouble that they were having too. On one, I even put new glow plugs in it for him and it still acted the same way.

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I’m fairly sure it’s the starter going. I don’t have a CEL (6.0’s normally throw a light for a glow plug). 6.0’s are ******* the starting/charging system. They pull a ton of power out to start and even run. Earlier in my ownership, I had newer batteries, that I though were good, they weren’t. So I killed a alternator, or 3…. And replaced the batteries. Also figured out that. A 6.0 might get 4 years on a set of batteries if you are lucky. So there have been low voltage starts over the years. I really try and stay on top of it, because low voltage is the quickest way to kill a FICM…. BTDT….

But I have one of those cheap little plug in to the cigarette lighter digital volt meters, and when I turn the key and start the WTS cycle, it dips, maybe into the 10ish volts, which is fairly normal, since it is running 8 plugs AND running the 8 spool valves. When the valves stop, it pops back up higher and never goes below about 11 during the cranking, but the starter sounds like it has 5 or 6 volts. It will even stutter once or twice, then it speeds up and the engine starts…. But get it started, drive it a bit and shut it off, it is normal-ish….. it still may be slow.. but it is faster than the 1st start. I have a feeling I will be surprised just like Selahdoor was with a new starter….

I am going to order a 6.4 starter… they spin faster than the. 6.0 starters do….

IDIBRONCO said:

Scott, going off of your story here. I've know a handful of people who had a 7.3 PSD, both early ones and a late one. They swore up and down that even though their glow plugs were fine, the trucks wouldn't start under about 40*. They had to plug them in to get then to start below 40*. I wonder if that's the trouble that they were having too. On one, I even put new glow plugs in it for him and it still acted the same way.

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This was actually for The_Josh_Bear I miss quoted and forgot how to fix it it was in reference to his comment

{ Huh? 50 psi pop difference makes 4-6* timing difference? If that's true we are all screwed cause nobody even offers it better than 50psi variance. Did you mean 500 psi? }

I actually meant 250psi-275psi not 50-75psi factory spec is 1750psi pop is good down to 1450psi and alot of people set pop pressure to around 1825psi -1850psi which is where i find we get best out of our injectors and i have modified marine 370 6bt 5.9 cummins injector nozzles in my injector bodies. I had to machine them to fit makes the motor starts much easier add to it I am glow plug deleted aka no glow plugs at all they have cores knocked out and tig welded shut then been lathed to make the sealing area seal. I will edit it sorry my mistype the number 2 on my keyboard sometimes isn't keying I guess its time to replace this keyboard .



my old work truck that had around 980,000 miles on it before I swapped the motor this video is with the old wore out motor NA and fully glowplug deleted with the modified 5.9 cummins 6BT 370 marine injector nozzles. I fired it with a screw driver on the solenoid on fender in the video and motor had set for like 6hrs and was cold keep in mind this motor was completely wore out and had horendous blowby which you can see in video of the blowby coming out the dipstick tube + CDR valve and that is with a road draft setup of 1 1/2 inch aka tons and tons of blowby yet still started easy with no glowplugs. Do not use the marine 370 injector nozzles if plan to use glow plugs as it will melt the glowplugs and cause the glowplugs to come apart in your motor and possibly destroy the engine but with them removed the engine starts very easy only needing minor ether or starting aid in really cold weather or simply plug in block heater and it will start in literally any temperature without glowplugs. Mine with a powerstroke intake heater coil mounted in the intake where the CDR valve normally goes strarts very easy down to about 45f but below that needs a little help a very small dose of ether ( no intake heater on or cycling ) we are talking enough to start a weedeater is all it takes to start mine in 27f and below temps. The point is if was running regular injector nozzles would be super hard to start I tried it not very long ago and went back to my modified injectors and its night and day I lose a small bit of power up top in higher rpms but the ease of starting and down low power is awesome my motor has alot more grunt down low with these injector nozzles.

The_Josh_Bear said:

Huh? 50 psi pop difference makes 4-6* timing difference? If that's true we are all screwed cause nobody even offers it better than 50psi variance. Did you mean 500 psi?

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The post above this was meant for you as a response but I miss quoted IDIBRONCO man these 12+hr shifts are getting to me and 60-70+ hr work weeks.

I'm not shook about it.

I’m also upgrading to a nippondenso style starter this weekend, and selahdoor I absolutely see what you mean about the starter body interfering with the top bolt access. Based on your advice I picked up a 6” wobble extension so I could come at it at an angle. I thought I’d post a picture so people can see what you were talking about.

Thank you. I was wishing that I had taken a couple pics of that.

Both from that direction, and top down, so that people could see how close the body is to the flange right there.

Wasn't going to pull the starter again, so I could take the pics, though.

I seriously had to put that bolt in the flange, THEN put the short socket on it, and tape the two together. THEN put the wobbly extension in the socket and tape the extension to the starter, so it wouldn't just fall sideways as I guided the starter up in there.

Selahdoor said:

I seriously had to put that bolt in the flange, THEN put the short socket on it, and tape the two together. THEN put the wobbly extension in the socket and tape the extension to the starter, so it wouldn't just fall sideways as I guided the starter up in there.

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I can't relate/visualize the pic as I haven't been in there yet but I will file this advice for future reference.

Sorry the first picture was too zoomed in to really see what’s going on. Here’s why you need one of those wobble extensions, or maybe a crow’s foot. I’m also realizing I can’t make my stud too long or the short socket won’t work.

Exactly!

Here's the thing on top of that...

My starter when installed, only had about an inch to an inch and a quarter or so, of room between it and the engine, right there. The way you are holding the extension, is at a further angle than I had room for. So even with the wobbly extension, I was not able to get that socket to set square, no matter what.

If you have a bolt inside that socket, you have a more than halfway decent chance of fishing it into that hole. (Especially with it taped in there even before you stick the starter up there.) Then you just have to get it straightened out enough, with everything at an angle like that, to get the bolt threaded in without cross-threading it.

But if what you are dealing with is a stud... Now you have to figure out how to reach in past there, to get a nut started on the stud, squarely. Again, so you don't cross-thread it.

Thinking about it, I guess you probably have just as good a chance either way. You still have to fish around in there with the wobbly extension and socket, trying to get something started square, while you are working at an angle.

Thank you for the pics.

Now that I am looking at it again, I can't believe how lucky I was to get that in there square and tight!

Wow, I didn't realize it was that much of a pain to get at that top bolt. It's been many years since I installed the current starter (mitsu), but all I can remember is having to use a fairly long extension. The trick was to get the ratchet between the end of the motor and the back of the engine cross member.

That's how it works with a Mitsubishi starter. They aren't built like the ND starters are. Thinking back on when I installed the ND starter on my Blue Truck, I may have even used a 1/4' drive socket and extension adapted to a 3/8" ratchet.