Name the cause of this smokeshow - 6.9IDI+T

kodiak98400

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When you installed your moose pump did you unbolt the pump from the drive gear cover or did you remove the drive gear cover from the motor ? If you removed the cover your gears or not timed right. Mine ran surprisingly well for being 180 out. Just hard to start and smoke like crazy.
 

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IDIBRONCO

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If the timing's 180 out, you won't have much power. It may not even be able to build the 7.6-8.0 pounds of boost that you're seeing. From what I remember, they don't do very well at trying to hold highway speeds. Plus I seem to recall that they run noisier than your is in the video.
 

danno

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When I installed the moose I just took the old one off, swapped the lines and put the moose in and lined up the marks. If you guys can remember an ATL guy with the timing setup that would be awesome ... I think conestoga actually rents one out if I’m getting new injectors I may see if I can get my hands on it ...
 

The_Josh_Bear

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When did the smoke start?
1. Since you've owned the truck, regardless of the IP/injectors.
2. Since the moose pump install
3. Since the injector install
4. Some time since the IP/injectors but not really correlating to the install.
When I installed the moose I just took the old one off, swapped the lines and put the moose in and lined up the marks. If you guys can remember an ATL guy with the timing setup that would be awesome ... I think conestoga actually rents one out if I’m getting new injectors I may see if I can get my hands on it ...
This is part of the issue, as the marks can be way off. It's probably a combo of timing and crap injectors, but for your knowledge the marks can be over 3/8" apart before timing is correct. And it's always different because the marks are just to get you driving to a shop for proper timing-- they are in a different spot from each rebuilder. I have no idea why, but they are.

Until you can find a meter/person with a meter, you can bump the timing 1/8" advanced and see how she runs.
The closest you can get by ear is on a cold start the engine will have that Powerstroke "rattle" where you need ear protection with the hood open. Then when the timing advance kicks down the rattle quiets down a whole bunch. This will get you within 3-4°.
 

danno

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Ok so I’m tracing fuel lines (again) to rule out air upstream and I finally just ran a closed system from a fuel can back into the fuel can. The pump is pushing a lot more fuel than it was when it was hooked to the feed line from the water separator. But still the pump seems to draw air intermittently.. is this pump shot??
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IDIBRONCO

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Yes. Ir's mostly because the quality has gone down in recent years. Holleys and Walboros are better options.
 

danno

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Yes. Ir's mostly because the quality has gone down in recent years. Holleys and Walboros are better options.
Quick poll then on the right Holley model external pump, and can these Mount in the engine bar or do they have to be on the frame rail before the tank? I run a Holley blue pump on my mid truck for gasoline and it needs head pressure to prime....
 

IDIBRONCO

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People usually mount them down along the frame as close to the tanks as possible. My opinion would be to go with a Holley red. The blue may be good enough, but you don't want to have to buy another pump if it's not. A blue will be good enough for a N/A truck. I think Cubey may be running a blue on his RV, but I don't think that his turbo puts out much boost. An electric pump is NOT something that you want to try to go cheap on (like your IP and injectors). Cheap is usually disappointing in the long run.
 

danno

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People usually mount them down along the frame as close to the tanks as possible. My opinion would be to go with a Holley red. The blue may be good enough, but you don't want to have to buy another pump if it's not. A blue will be good enough for a N/A truck. I think Cubey may be running a blue on his RV, but I don't think that his turbo puts out much boost. An electric pump is NOT something that you want to try to go cheap on (like your IP and injectors). Cheap is usually disappointing in the long run.
Thanks Bronco.. is 7psi enough? And is there a connector line kit that’ll connect to the outlet of the fuel selector? Or just and straight snap on connector then regular fuel l lol one to the separator hard line? I’m concerned that the water separator is also a fail point, can we change over to a fuel filter with a built in separator or does that require the new version filter head?

Holley 12-801-1 doesn’t say anything about being diesel compatible so is that the one to use?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-801-1

Thanks for everything
 

The_Josh_Bear

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Anybody try one of these? Since I’m wired and plumbed for a facet pump this would be a direct replacement

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-430
That's a Facet equivalent and you don't want it for the 33gph part. The pump can't put out enough GPH at higher RPMs under full throttle,, so at idle you get 7-8psi, then at WOT you get 2psi or worse. I know, I have one! The inlet pressure affects timing, which affects MPGs, power, drivability, etc.
Since then I have plumbed in a Motorcraft OE lift pump in parallel with the Facet and leave it enabled via the timing advance circuit so the Facet can prime the system when cold and for filter changes, etc. I put them in parallel with check valves after each pump so one cannot pump into or past the other.

I would suggest the above setup for budget or mild engine builds, it serves me quite well. And since you already have the Facet...easy to boot!

I don't have a Holley or Walbro setup so I'll let someone else chime in with part numbers and such, but use the search function and you'll find many good threads about this topic. It's pretty much beating the dead horse around here.
 

danno

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Going to revive this old post in hopes somebody is out there that can sanity check me.... I finally convinced myself to buy a timing set and hooked everything up hoping to confirm that I was close on the timing, and that my recent fiddling (though it didn’t help much with the smokeshow) was getting close....

But according to the readings I’m gettting I was waaaaaaay off but is it possible for this thing to even run retarded?

After the engine warmed up it was idling around “-12” and when revved to 2000 rpm it read “-15” ... so I thought, “crap, I’m too far advanced I’m lucky I didn’t spring a leak in the head gasket.”

So I retarded it slightly, rotating clockwise, top side rotated toward driver side, and it idled at “-15” and revved out to “-22” .... so I’m thinking now that I went the wrong way?!?! That it was actually set at -15 (15 degrees AFTER TDC) and I retarded it further to “-22” or 22 degrees after TDC. So now I’m looking at removing fuel lines to rotate it WAAAAY further advanced... but am I going to “-8.5” or “+8.5”????

Sanity check, intuitively it’s showing the timing retarded after TDC since it went more negative as I retarded it more, but that would mean on the last test it was 30 degrees retarded from where it’s supposed to be at 8.5 BTDC... am I nuts here? I don’t want to nuke this engine after all this work..... help please.


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Big Bart

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Going to revive this old post in hopes somebody is out there that can sanity check me.... I finally convinced myself to buy a timing set and hooked everything up hoping to confirm that I was close on the timing, and that my recent fiddling (though it didn’t help much with the smokeshow) was getting close....

But according to the readings I’m gettting I was waaaaaaay off but is it possible for this thing to even run retarded?

After the engine warmed up it was idling around “-12” and when revved to 2000 rpm it read “-15” ... so I thought, “crap, I’m too far advanced I’m lucky I didn’t spring a leak in the head gasket.”

So I retarded it slightly, rotating clockwise, top side rotated toward driver side, and it idled at “-15” and revved out to “-22” .... so I’m thinking now that I went the wrong way?!?! That it was actually set at -15 (15 degrees AFTER TDC) and I retarded it further to “-22” or 22 degrees after TDC. So now I’m looking at removing fuel lines to rotate it WAAAAY further advanced... but am I going to “-8.5” or “+8.5”????

Sanity check, intuitively it’s showing the timing retarded after TDC since it went more negative as I retarded it more, but that would mean on the last test it was 30 degrees retarded from where it’s supposed to be at 8.5 BTDC... am I nuts here? I don’t want to nuke this engine after all this work..... help please.


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I am not familiar with your unit so take what I saw with a grain of salt, I could be wrong.

I believe the meter was telling you your engine was to ”retarded” at -15*, and it should have been at 8.5*. (That your timing is 23.5 * off, firing 23.5* late thus why you might have a white smoke show.). So you were trying to retard the timing but it looks as if you should have advanced it.

Some questions?

1) Are you using the damper probe or a timing light?

2) If the damper probe, did you use it in the tube to the top right on the damper timing bar?

3) If yes on #2 did you set the meter to have a 20* offset?

4) If you used a timing light, was is it specifically for that timing system? Or is it a generic one for a gas engine?

5) Any idea of how your timing got so far off? Did you do any IP or injector work?
 
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