Name the cause of this smokeshow - 6.9IDI+T

danno

Registered User
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Posts
54
Reaction score
17
Location
atlanta
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

So ... I've had this truck for many years as most of you know...

Here's what I've done in my quest for more reliability and power:

All new lines back to the tank
Electric lift pump (fuel pump, facet)
New Moose Jr IP
New Rockauto GBremanufacturing Injectors <-- my current most likely candidate for replacement with Moose injectors
I'm on at least my third return line kit, no visible fuel leaks in the system
Turbo pieced together from ebay used junkyard parts with giant conical filter
Full 4 inch exhaust
Custom intake
New Glow Plugs
New aluminum radiator
fully rewired ignition system
gear motor starter

I followed all the instructions on 6.9IDI+turbo setup, pierced holes in the oil drain, etc.

I have Auber Instruments boost pressure gauge and EGT, runs 7.6-8.0psi boost (wastegate limited I'm sure) and gets up around 1000F degrees max on WOT going up hill, empty. Typical EGTs around 400-500F

The problem is.. she smokes, a lot... a little black smoke on acceleration, but white/gray smoke all the time. the video is a cold start... it doesn't change much as she warms up. Power feels really good, cruises at 70mph easy even holds speed up hill from a truck that could barely do 55 empty uphill. Temps are good.

Cold starts hard, three or four cycles of 15-20 seconds with manual glow plug button pressed pretty much the whole time. Starts easy when hot.

I'm constantly worried about fuel leaks.. I put a clear line between the lift pump and the filter head and it'll gather a small bubble within an hour or so of shutting it down.

So what do you guys think?? Does it look like air in the fuel system, still? What's the most likely culprit for air between a Facet lift pump and the filter head? Olive seals? Maybe on the feed line between the filter head and the IP inlet? Would that cause enough intrusion for this much smoke? I'm not consuming coolant... the oil looks good. The best guess i have is the moose junior pump is not matched well with GB remanufacturing "new" fuel injectors. I don't know what the injector code is, it's not visible. The smoke issue is the same as it was before i added the turbo setup.. i thought maybe some boost would remedy it... didn't change anything.
 

IDIBRONCO

IDIBRONCO
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Posts
12,235
Reaction score
10,925
Location
edmond, ks
My first guess would be the injectors. You bought a pump from one of the good places, but you went cheap on the injectors and bought them from some place else. Just because they are called "remanufactured" doesn't mean a thing. The Facet electric pumps are known for poor quality these days and often times have trouble keeping up with a N/A engine. I wouldn't worry much about one small bubble forming in your clear fuel line after an hour after shutting off your engine.
 

The_Josh_Bear

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2016
Posts
1,916
Reaction score
1,498
Location
Western WA
I agree with the above. :Thumbs Up

I'll add that 3-4 cycles of GP's with manual button is rediculous, you must have 3-5 burned out GP's. That's nuts, my manual setup starts at 10 seconds every time. Cold weather can be 20 seconds but you get the idea.
Timing can affect starting but grey/white smoke usually means retarded timing as long as it's fuel smoke and not coolant. And retarded timing usually helps starting so...prolly injectors.
Timing is still critical.
BTW if you get quality injectors you'll need to re-time the IP.

I'm glad it drives well for you, once these issues are ironed out your EGTs will drop and power will go up for sure. Running correctly, you should be able to accelerate up a hill until you're out of gears in the Atlanta area, lol.
 

frankenwrench

overkill is under rated!
Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Posts
843
Reaction score
490
Location
Weatherford tx
I too agree with the timing and "rebuilt/remanufactured" injectors calls. If you can find someone to time it I believe it would help greatly with the hard starts, egts, and the smoking. If you cant find someone with a meter I would advise turning your pump a dimes width to the passenger side(using current lines on the pump and housing as reference) and see how the exhaust behaves. A small haze is one thing, that looks like retarded timing and unburned fuel to me. As far as peace of mind on the possible air intrusion from IP to filter head, Classic Diesel Designs sells a new line for that with push lock fittings for this as well as a fuel pressure guage for the kit. Conistoga Diesel also sells this line and fittings as a braided steel line.
 

ISPKI

Welding/metallurgical engineer/Metalsmith
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Posts
1,068
Reaction score
645
Location
Granby CT
Have you taken a small whiff of the exhaust? That amount of smoke would tell me that you have a cylinder that isnt firing or a small headgasket leak. My F250 had 1 cylinder that would never fire on cold start and it would produce light grey smoke like that for a good 20 minutes before it finally warmed up enough to combust. However, it is possible that you have a small coolant leak getting into a cylinder.
 

hacked89

Full Access Member
Joined
May 30, 2018
Posts
1,738
Reaction score
2,328
Location
Bucks County PA
Have you taken a small whiff of the exhaust? That amount of smoke would tell me that you have a cylinder that isnt firing or a small headgasket leak. My F250 had 1 cylinder that would never fire on cold start and it would produce light grey smoke like that for a good 20 minutes before it finally warmed up enough to combust. However, it is possible that you have a small coolant leak getting into a cylinder.
Agree with this response about smell. Inefficiently burned diesel has a distinct smell from the exhaust from coolant.

Unfortunately I can’t smell it for you through the video.

If you don’t know what you’re smelling do a cold compression test first.

If it passes cold compression then do leak down.

Before you start spending money on injectors or fuel system.

If you have someone near you to check the timing, that’s pretty much free for S&G if you wanted to do that first.
 

hacked89

Full Access Member
Joined
May 30, 2018
Posts
1,738
Reaction score
2,328
Location
Bucks County PA
OP - start at 19:15 mark in this video. This is one of my engines and what it sounds like with a bad cylinder and coolant in the cylinder. You can see the white smoke on that bank.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

danno

Registered User
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Posts
54
Reaction score
17
Location
atlanta
Unfortunately in NW Georgia I’ve called every diesel shop and nobody has the equipment to time this engine so I’ve been dabbling with timing.. not much difference moving left or right a dimes width. I can’t imagine it’s 180 degrees out I got the IP from conestago and it can only do one way with the pin on the gear. I’ve always suspected the injectors, anybody know what the right match is for the moose Jr? Moose buddy is my best guess.

Broke down last night on the maiden voyage, lost prime in the fuel system and she died, hopefully didn’t damage anything. I rigged up an auxiliary fuel tank with a fuel can in the cab with some extra clear line and got it primed from the tank to facet lift pump and from the lift pump to the filter head then i started to crack and bleed the injector lines, had one small hint of wanting to start but ran out of battery and gave up at 3am. It was total Roadkill but it would have gotten me 4 miles home.

Obviously that had nothing to do with injectors... buti think the clear vinyl line just didn’t seal well to the barb on the connector. The only 1/8MIP TO 3/8 barb connectors I could find have a single barb and a smooth barrel, they don’t bite like the typical barbed connection and pull air of you wiggle them.

I’ve been working on cars my whole life and have a lot of time and money in this truck and just tired of failing........ though I’m pretty new to fuel systems I’ve done tons of other mechanical work... oh well back in the shop tomorrow. I’m close to just throwing my hands up if I get her running again and throwing a for sale sign on her out by the road. I need something reliable for towing/hauling and fixable these IDIs seem to have a lot of failure modes.

BTW compression check I did before installing the turbo was good, before i replace anything else I’m doing another compression test.

Thanks for all the comments guys this is a great forum... way better than the import tuner guys on the Z forums and AMG guys.
 

gnathv

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Posts
1,048
Reaction score
522
Location
Athens, Al
Also I’m pretty sure there’s a member in Atlanta with a timing meter. can’t remember his name though. He was having issues a few months ago and bought a meter.
 

Vern

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Posts
150
Reaction score
32
Location
Albert NB
How did you set your timing after replacing pump and injectors? I can't help but wonder if it needs to be advanced more then a dime's width.
 
Top