Buying 85 IDI ATS turbo motorhome!

Cubey

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I'll bet that you won't run into any flow issues with that Facet either. Unlike on our trucks.

Well to be fair, it's for a 2 cylinder generator engine that uses early 2000s Ford Taurus FL400S oil filters (direct fit!) so it's fuel needs aren't as high.

The old pump with the remnants of the rubber seal thing from the end of the plunger. The inlet hose barb fitting can be moved over. The info I'm seeing says it's 1/8-27 (NPT). I'll need 1/8 MPT to 1/4" elbow for the new pump's output, so basically one just like the old inlet fitting.

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Cubey

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Oh you can still get the proper one... for about $50-65 more by the time tax/ship is added on. I can make the other fit for ~$6 for an elbow fitting. There is ample space next to the fuel pump for the fittings to stick out differently.

I did just notice that the one I got has "wrong" mounting points, the one shown below is right. But eh, one bolt is enough to hold it on to be honest. The cheapo pump was mounted like that and it never came loose. I can probably come up with adapter bracket for next to nothing.

I don't plan to run the gen a lot anyway. I just want/need it operational now and then. For about the half price of the "proper" model pump mounting wise, but still a high quality pump, it's close enough for me.

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Cubey

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I'd have to do the same thing. It's just too bad about the cheapie pump.

Yep. I took it off and put 12v straight to it and nothing. Tried tapping it with a wrench, still nothing. It's dead.
 

Isaac Ristow

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Them onans are great gens! one thing that always kills them is the valve lash adjustment, the valves seat into the block and the lash becomes tight then they don't fully seal and the exhaust valves and pressed in iron seats get very hot and eventually the seat will drop out of the block. The oil filter is very universal its the same as any other onan, briggs, kohler, my 87 dodge dakota 3.9 used the same filter, my sisters 2011 focus uses the same filter etc, its a fram PH3614 or a wix 51348. also the valves being tight will cause it to run rough and sometimes hard start.
 

Cubey

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Them onans are great gens! one thing that always kills them is the valve lash adjustment, the valves seat into the block and the lash becomes tight then they don't fully seal and the exhaust valves and pressed in iron seats get very hot and eventually the seat will drop out of the block. The oil filter is very universal its the same as any other onan, briggs, kohler, my 87 dodge dakota 3.9 used the same filter, my sisters 2011 focus uses the same filter etc, its a fram PH3614 or a wix 51348. also the valves being tight will cause it to run rough and sometimes hard start.

The problem it had would be that it would bog down and recover repeatedly sometimes until I put a heavier load on it, which I guess messed with the throttle. Sometimes it would stall and not hardly want to restart. But.... that was possibly all caused by the crap fuel pump?

When I first put it on it was fairly ok aside from the bog/recover. The more I used it, the worse it got to the point that it would stall after about 10 minutes and not want to start again until it sat a while. Overheating crap fuel pump? Finally it just quit, dead fuel pump.

There is a dedicated fuel gauge for the gen's gas tank next to the inside start/stop switch but who knows how accurate it is. It could be that cheapo pump couldn't handle being run dry for any amount of time pulling gas to the gen. This thing has to run gas a long way (about 15-20ft of hose). An in-line check valve near the tank might be a good idea, and not letting the tank run below 1/2 a tank on the gauge.

I have a cheapo in-line clear plastic fuel filter near the fuel pump between the tank and pump to keep trash out of the pump, so I know that isn't what killed it.

I haven't touched anything on the gen except cleaning the carb bowl/jet (I was able to do it without removing the carb because I can't figure out how to remove the carb!), adjusting the choke wheel(?) next to the carb, and the fuel pump/fuel line. The old fuel pump was seized up when I got the RV and the guy was in an RV park with full hookups, so he said he never ran it or tried it. The outlet from the pump was disconnected so someone tried messing with it at one point.

Hmm... looking back at this test run video with the old pump and feeding it from a funnel, I wonder how it worked at all. I mean, I did prime it by having the funnel above the pump before I stated it with starring fluid, but as you can see, it kept running well beyond when I had the funnel lower the pump. The fuel in the bowl should have run out by then, yet it was still running and the gas level in the funnel appears to be going down slowly. The pump might be weak though, hence the surging you see.
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I wonder if that destroyed rubber piece is just the anti-drain back valve? Maybe I don't even need a pump, just a 1/4 in-line check valve near the fuel tank. There is an o-ring in the pump though too, but that's pretty standard stuff. I can probably find one close enough to work there.

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This is worth investigating further. Next clear'ish day and when I feel like it, I'll stick my HFT fuel pressure test gauge on the output and feed it gas from a gas can. I just won't bother hooking it to the gen. fused 12v directly is all it needs.

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Even if it seems to pump, I'll probably just keep the new one and install it, and keep the old was an emergency spare that may or may not actually work in said emergency situation.

I have a tiny 500W Yamaha gen that i carry too for more daily uses, not to mention my 400W of solar on the roof, so the big gen is just a rare thing I run. But it's nice to have when I need it. It can run AC, the electric element on the water heater (also LP), an electric heater (such as the block heater!), microwave, etc. Just nice to have a ton of power handy, just in case.
 
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Booyah45828

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The problem it had would be that it would bog down and recover repeatedly sometimes until I put a heavier load on it, which I guess messed with the throttle. Sometimes it would stall and not hardly want to restart. But.... that was possibly all caused by the crap fuel pump?

When I first put it on it was fairly ok aside from the bog/recover. The more I used it, the worse it got to the point that it would stall after about 10 minutes and not want to start again until it sat a while. Overheating crap fuel pump? Finally it just quit, dead fuel pump.

That bog recover action is called hunting.

So at low/no loads, the engine runs lean and starts to die. The governor opens the throttle more to raise rpm, pulling fuel from the main jet. With the throttle now open, the rpm becomes higher then desired, causing the governor to pull the throttle closed and then the cycle starts again.

When that occurs I usually find the carb to be dirty, plugging the idle passage. It happens all the time on small engines, because the idle passage is pretty small, so anything in the bowl besides fuel will plug it.

One time, on a cheap honda knockoff generator, I found the idle passage was drilled incorrectly on the carb. Drilled it out, installed a new welch plug, and it ran like a charm.

Clean the idle jet, main jet, and bowl, and see if it still happens. You definitely need to fix it on a generator, having an unstable rpm/frequency isn't good for the stuff you're powering.
 

Cubey

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That bog recover action is called hunting.

So at low/no loads, the engine runs lean and starts to die. The governor opens the throttle more to raise rpm, pulling fuel from the main jet. With the throttle now open, the rpm becomes higher then desired, causing the governor to pull the throttle closed and then the cycle starts again.

When that occurs I usually find the carb to be dirty, plugging the idle passage. It happens all the time on small engines, because the idle passage is pretty small, so anything in the bowl besides fuel will plug it.

One time, on a cheap honda knockoff generator, I found the idle passage was drilled incorrectly on the carb. Drilled it out, installed a new welch plug, and it ran like a charm.

Clean the idle jet, main jet, and bowl, and see if it still happens. You definitely need to fix it on a generator, having an unstable rpm/frequency isn't good for the stuff you're powering.

It ran better once it had the cheapo fuel pump, but the more I used the cheapo fuel pump the worse it seemed to get. Typically it didn't "hunt" for the most part unless it wasn't warmed up, since I think the bushing(s) on the choke lever are gone, so it doesn't quite work like it should. I hadn't yet cleaned the jet or done much carb adjusting in that video either. Sometimes it would but until I adjusted the load (plus or minus) but again that may have been the fuel pump failing somehow?

When I got it, it had a metal can type of fuel filter in line, so at least I know it wasn't run without one. Maybe the carb won't be too filthy aside from varnish. I tossed out the metal one and put a plastic one so I could see into it for trash/gas. It's down under the RV just before the fuel line goes up to the gen, so it the really old hose is between the filter and tank. I put a new piece of hose between the filter and gen. So, if the hold hose is giving off rubber flakes, the filter should catch it. Yeah I should replace that long run of hose but it's not been a high priority for such as occasional use generator.

If I can ever figure out how to remove the carb, I could try properly cleaning it. But first I'll just have to see how it behaves with a proper, high quality fuel pump. Dumping a whole can of B12 chemtool in the gas tank and giving it a good couple hours run with the AC on full blast or an electric heater set to 1500W might be all the carb needs to clean it up.

The gas tank has a drain bolt on the bottom, and the tank itself is held on with just 4 nuts/bolts, so it might not be a bad idea to drain it and pull it off to see it it needs cleaning. The bottom of it could be caked with varnish like my Honda Gyro fuel tank was from extreme neglect.

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This is the exact kind of fuel pump I tried. It's listed as 3-6psi but who knows how steady that is under heavy duty conditions, being bolted onto a generator like that. Maybe it would have lasted better if I had mounted it to the side wall in the compartment, away from the constant vibrations. The gen is on rubber mounts so it can really move, much more than a portable one siting on the ground.

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Selahdoor

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That's what I am thinking. It might have lasted longer if you had mounted it away from the generator.

In fact, you might consider mounting the new one, away from the generator. Regardless of the fact the old one was mounted there.
 

Booyah45828

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I'm not saying your fuel pump wasn't bad. But your video shows it's hunting/surging.

would bog down and recover repeatedly sometimes until I put a heavier load on it,

That is hunting/surging. If it settles itself with a load, the issue is on the idle circuit. If it does it all the time(loaded or unloaded), or dies with a load, then I would suspect your fuel pump or governor.

This video is for an emerald generator like yours where he shows what he did to tear it apart and fix his.
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Cubey

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That's what I am thinking. It might have lasted longer if you had mounted it away from the generator.

In fact, you might consider mounting the new one, away from the generator. Regardless of the fact the old one was mounted there.

Yeah, that has crossed my mind. I would have to run a wire from the gen chassis (the fuel pump mounting bolts) to the metal casing of the fuel pump since that's how those Facet pumps get negative. Not a big deal, just a little something extra to do. I had to run a short wire from a fuel pump mounting bolt to the cheapo fuel pump's negative wire.


That is hunting/surging. If it settles itself with a load, the issue is on the idle circuit. If it does it all the time(loaded or unloaded), or dies with a load, then I would suspect your fuel pump or governor.

To be honest, I can't remember the pattern or time frame of when it hunted a lot. The cheap fuel pump worked for such a short amount of time, after all. I'll just have to see how it acts with the new fuel pump (and a heavy treatment of B12 chemtool) before I try ripping things apart.

The main thing I remember is it stalling out for no good reason after about 10 minutes running back around October-November, right before the pump totally died.
 
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Cubey

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I tested out the new fuel pump on the gen to be sure it works. Yep, it does. The generator choked and coughed and ran like crap at first, but I can't blame it with year-old fuel that sat in the carb. The few drops in the fuel filter were gel'd/varnished. I first tried it by feeding the pump from a 2 gallon can of fresh gas. Then I dumped the fresh gas and about 1/3 of a can of B12 Chemtool into the generator's fuel tank. Then I used a hand pump to pull the gas back to the fuel filter so the pump wouldn't have to work so hard to pull it.

It sputtered and stalled out a few times with a load (roof AC) but that carb is hard to know how to adjust it, at least for me at the moment. The plastic cap is removed (it's in the drawer in the RV) for bottom screw that is only supposed be adjusted about 1/3 in either direction max so who knows how it's supposed to be adjusted. The upper screw (air mixture?) I removed and sprayed carb cleaner into until it dribbled out from the carb while the air box was unbolted. The choke plate was all dirty with black crap that I cleaned off with carb cleaner and a paper towel.

After I let it idle with no load for quite a while, it seemed to do a bit better when put the roof AC on high again. It didn't stall. It does smoke grey (or blue, hard to tell...) even idling with no load. When It was sputtering and nearly stalling, it was puffing black smoke. Too much fuel, not enough air.

Running it without the air filter for a few minutes didn't change anything. It was running with the AC load on it when I put the air filter back on and it didn't slow down or sound any different.

I pulled the spark plugs and they were both black and dry sooty. I cleaned both plugs with carb cleaner and a cloth rag and put them back in. That may have also helped it run better, getting rid of that carbon build up. They are the proper NGK TR5 equivalents for the Onan plugs. I didn't check the gap since I need to look up what it's supposed to be, and find my spark plug gap gauge. The gap seemed pretty wide. It could be it needs new plugs, or at least regapping of these. Maybe it doesn't like those "V" cut electrodes very well.

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The 1/4" fuel line I put from the pump to the carb was WAY bigger than the original steel line but it seems to work ok. It's hard to get the air out of the lines for some reason though. I think it could use an in-line check valve near the tank to avoid drain back. I'll worry about that later when I can spare the $10. I used a long piece of clear vinyl tubing I had laying around already, not cutting it since I don't want to shorten it just for testing purposes. I will get some clear, fuel rating tubing and replace it later since it's nice to be able to see if it's getting fuel.

The fuel pump is held on with one bolt on the rear but it's plenty secure and gives it proper negative/ground.

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But of course the old rotten/corroded wires at the remote start connector started breaking (well, one did) and insulation began coming off due to it being cracked up. Thankfully that connector is still being sold online for about $20-25 shipped. I'll worry about that later since it can be started/stopped from the switch on the generator itself. Only downside is the hour meter won't count, presumably. Maybe I can resolder the wire to the pin and shove it back in the plastic connector, and put some heat shrink tubing to patch up the rotten insulation on the other wires for the time being.

I took a pic before more break, so I'll know which wire color goes to which pin:

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I think what I'll do next month is pour the rest of that B12 chemtool in the tank, along with Stabil, and then fill up the gas tank. Then run it for the water heater on electric mode before I want to take a shower while off grid, so it can get a good workout and cleaning of the carb. The stabil will be good in case I have to quit running it again for a while in case something else goes wrong with it.
 
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Scotty4

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Turn the adjustment screw in and out to see the max rotation noting the starting point and return to the starting point to free anything up. With it running, turn the screw in until it dies/sputters counting turns. Return to starting point. Then run again and turn out until it dies/sputters. Split the difference or lean towards the side it sounded better and that is a good starting point. May just need cleaning.

My welder with Onan gen always lost fuel too easy and was impossible to get it back up. Installed new hose, pump diaphragm, and carb gaskets and things went well for a while. Finally put a small pump on and never had another issue.

My tank was mainly Stabil and tank treatment stuff. Ethanol sucks.
 

Cubey

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Some might recall me changing the RV's differential oil last summer. It was black and disgusting. For a refresher, its a Dana 70 open diff. As such, I put in cheap SuperTech conventional 80w90 at the time and ran it from SE SD, to the TX panhandle, then down west TX to I20, then east on I20/I30 to Arkansas. It's been sitting February or March this year. I put a LubeLocker gasket so I don't have to use RTV and buy a new paper gasket every time. Makes more frequent oil changes so much faster.

Well today I changed it for the first time since then. It first was coming out a bit dark but still golden at first, but then the waterfall of the last half or so was BLACK again. I guess the black is the dirty oil, which is heavier, so it settles at the bottom. I had to sweep out the last bit from the bottom of the pumpkin with my finger since it's a a small bowl under the top of the opening for the cover, where it couldn't drain.

I refilled it with SuperTech conventional 85w140 this time since people all seem to say the heavier weight is better for heavy loads. Yeah syntheic would be even better but it's not cheap. Cheapest is SuperTech 75w90 syth $28/gal. Synthetic 75w140 costs about $50/gal. It takes a gallon to refill it, so it's not worth spending that kind of money on a cleanup job were it's getting drained every few thousand miles.The conventional is about $15/gallon in SuperTech 80w90 and 85w140.

I dunno when I'll get a good chance to drain it again, even though it's not too messy thanks to that reusable gasket. I am seeing some very minor seepage from the cover at the bottom but eh, it's so very minor, maybe it's normal until it has time to seat again. Maybe it's just residue since it's not enough to even drip off of the bottom of the pumpkin.

I torqued the bolts to about 33ft lbs, then 38. Haynes calls for 30-40. I'll let it sit a few days and see if it's dripping off of the pumpkin. Those gaskets are a lot more expensive ($22) but the convenience is great. It'll pay for itself after 3 uses vs RTV and $7 disposable paper gaskets.
 

Cubey

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I guess this is a good place to rant instead of my other recent brake threads, since it's not related to those topics.

I'm having to redo the front calipers on the RV less than 2 years after I got them done (and other hydraulic work, totaling the $1200 I often mention). I'm 300 miles from the shop, so I can't claim warranty. :mad:

The RH caliper has at least one piston hanging up. One was out further than the other. :frustrate

No wonder braking was so bad and there was no lurching forward when the rear brakes weren't working, and I had almost no brakes at all without properly working rears.

When I removed the RH caliper and put compressed air in it (from a 12v compressor), both pistons don't hardly want to move and are deeply scratched. Maybe the LH side caliper's pistons are too? I haven't messed with the LH caliper any yet. The two on the LH side are even, but now it's like... might as well replace both calipers. If one side is damaged, the other side might be too. :dunno

I can't get them until Tuesday (RH) and Wednesday (LH) from O'Reilly which is about the soonest from any source. $104.xx with tax for the pair. (not counting core)

Well, $104 for calipers is cheaper than a wreck. And I'm doing all this work myself so I'm saving.. what, at least $500 in labor? and I'll be able to claim warranty on the calipers if they ever mess up. (Lifetime warranty)


On the plus side, when doing the rotors, the all four wheel bearings are still good. So that saves me about $60 in bearings and labor of changing races. I spun the hubs after the calipers were removed from the rotors and they were extremely quiet. The LH wheel seal was bad, throwing grease out on the back plate, but nothing major. Both sides had a crap ton of grease in the hub, so I know they were lubed properly. I cleaned up the bearings a ton by hand with brake cleaner and paper towels so they are about 99% free of old grease. Of course the inside of the hubs got cleaned too. They will get fresh high temp grease and new seals tomorrow.

I'll replace both dust caps since they were very much stuck and had to be bent/damaged to be removed. Since that's the outer seal, they should be replaced. (Another $12)
 
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