Using 2nd gear with E4OD while towing?

SLC97SR5

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Posts
531
Reaction score
207
Location
UT
I seem to remember that placing the shifter in 1st or 2nd does more that simply causing the tranny to start off and hold that gear.

I thought it did something to the fluid circuitry and was undesirable if really working the truck on a grade or when loaded up?

Am I high in the night?
 

Kevin 007

Full-floater
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Posts
1,949
Reaction score
231
Location
Nelson BC Canada
When 2nd is selected, it's 2nd only. Doesn't start in 1st and shift to second and hold there, nor will it shift back down to 1st.
I have used 2nd for towing lots, long hills, heavy loads. The problem is the TCM doesn't lock the torque converter in 2nd so it makes for a inefficient scenario and increased trans temps. HOWEVER, I have done manual TC lockup modifications to a few E4OD's that were having wiring issues etc, which is not uncommon. And with a manual TC lockup modification, you can then lock the TC while in 2nd and it's great for those long steep mountain passes with a load on the back.
3rd gear with TC lock is just too high for many situations and 2nd unlock is to inefficient.
 

oldmisterbill

Grumpy Old Man
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Posts
2,093
Reaction score
21
Location
Wagoner Oklahoma
The manual lock up mod is a great addition to make an E40D last. I towed heavy for a few years and my E40d was awesome ,with the lock up and a double tranny cooler. One serious point use it only when approaching highway speeds and remember under 30 UNLOCK IT it will stall an IDI and possibly cause damage.
 

Black dawg

Registered User
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Posts
3,995
Reaction score
703
Location
sw mt
My truck has the original 1989 tcm, and it would lock the converter in 2nd and manual second.

I do recall seeing a diagram somewhere showing more stuff applied in manual 2, always figured that was better and used mine that way.
 

Kevin 007

Full-floater
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Posts
1,949
Reaction score
231
Location
Nelson BC Canada
The manual lock up mod is a great addition to make an E40D last. I towed heavy for a few years and my E40d was awesome ,with the lock up and a double tranny cooler. One serious point use it only when approaching highway speeds and remember under 30 UNLOCK IT it will stall an IDI and possibly cause damage.

Yup with a little care, a few simple mods, and proper driving habits; the E4OD's seem to hold up just fine when towing. Certainly better then the GM and Mopar OD trans of the same era.
 

SLC97SR5

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Posts
531
Reaction score
207
Location
UT
I have a BTS transmission with dual coolers and the trans has never gotten much over 200*.

I hauled a 6,5000 lb travel trailer up Parleys canyon (6% grade) to test out my new engine and get a feel for how everything was getting along.

After reaching the summit and turning around I accelerated up the on-ramp in Drive and once the trans shifted to 2nd I moved the shifter into 2nd to keep it from upshifting.

Once I reached 30mph I saw white smoke billowing from under the truck. The trans had burped ATF from the bell housing, presumably the front pump seal.

The only other time my trans has done this was backing a trailer into a campsite after a long pull, that was several years ago.

The pump seal may need to be replaced but I would like to know if I induced an issue manually selecting 2nd.

I thought the transmission was "weaker" when in 1st or 2nd?

@trackspeeder
 

SLC97SR5

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Posts
531
Reaction score
207
Location
UT
You must be registered for see images attach
 

Laine D

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Posts
1,362
Reaction score
1,945
Location
Northern California
I have a BTS transmission with dual coolers and the trans has never gotten much over 200*.

I hauled a 6,5000 lb travel trailer up Parleys canyon (6% grade) to test out my new engine and get a feel for how everything was getting along.

After reaching the summit and turning around I accelerated up the on-ramp in Drive and once the trans shifted to 2nd I moved the shifter into 2nd to keep it from upshifting.

Once I reached 30mph I saw white smoke billowing from under the truck. The trans had burped ATF from the bell housing, presumably the front pump seal.

The only other time my trans has done this was backing a trailer into a campsite after a long pull, that was several years ago.

The pump seal may need to be replaced but I would like to know if I induced an issue manually selecting 2nd.

I thought the transmission was "weaker" when in 1st or 2nd?

@trackspeeder
Parleys is no joke
 

oldmisterbill

Grumpy Old Man
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Posts
2,093
Reaction score
21
Location
Wagoner Oklahoma
I had a Jasper reman. I puled a 30ft Goosneck low bed equip trailer. Occasionally over 22000 gross. And a few times over 25,000. I think it was in 2002 that I got the transmission factory installed. It also had a banks turbo. when I got home from the Jasper plant in Indiana I installed a temp gauge in the line at the trans to the trans cooler to get the temp exiting the transmission. Next 2 large oil coolers in front f the radiator wit a decent space to allow free air to the radiator when pulling hard and slow. I feel it is important to plumb the oil coolers in Parallel (like our batteries are hooked up) to allow less restriction of the oil flow and slow the oil asit passes thru the coolers so as to cool the oil better. The results after the coolers were in it never maxed over 190 degrees except a very few times and then it was under 215. The longevity will never be known as in 2005 it got parked with over 200,000 on the transmission. a few years later it was sold to a farmer friend of mine. He hauled his tractors and occasionally a case 580 backhoe along with his hay trailers. two years ago he sold it to another farmer (he went to a late model power stroke) Six months ago it wa wrecked and the engine and trans were sold as a pair (Jasper engine also) to someone else that needed it for his farm truck. It is still somewhere farming. My point run the trans as cool as you can - use a converter manual converter lock up switch (a locked converter makes much less heat, because it isn't compressing the oil to move the truck) And you have the best trans built for many years. I plowed snow with 4 gm trucks and turbo 400 GM transmissions now where near as good as my E40D was. The bad rap they gotis from over heating and I never liked the shift points. Also I let up slightly on the throttle to allow the trans to make a firm tight engagement before pulling hard and making more heat,especially when the converter was manually locked up.
That's my long winded story and I'm sticking to it. I hope this has been informative and useful.
 

typ4

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Posts
9,093
Reaction score
1,372
Location
Newberg,OR
Im putting an E4OD in the dually with an aftermarket controller. Going to update the trans before it goes in.
Its a ford reman for a PS . It will be interesting to see what updates are in it from the reman. Im guessing none.

I like the parallel cooler idea.
 

Kevin 007

Full-floater
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Posts
1,949
Reaction score
231
Location
Nelson BC Canada
I had a Jasper reman. I puled a 30ft Goosneck low bed equip trailer. Occasionally over 22000 gross. And a few times over 25,000. I think it was in 2002 that I got the transmission factory installed. It also had a banks turbo. when I got home from the Jasper plant in Indiana I installed a temp gauge in the line at the trans to the trans cooler to get the temp exiting the transmission. Next 2 large oil coolers in front f the radiator wit a decent space to allow free air to the radiator when pulling hard and slow. I feel it is important to plumb the oil coolers in Parallel (like our batteries are hooked up) to allow less restriction of the oil flow and slow the oil asit passes thru the coolers so as to cool the oil better. The results after the coolers were in it never maxed over 190 degrees except a very few times and then it was under 215. The longevity will never be known as in 2005 it got parked with over 200,000 on the transmission. a few years later it was sold to a farmer friend of mine. He hauled his tractors and occasionally a case 580 backhoe along with his hay trailers. two years ago he sold it to another farmer (he went to a late model power stroke) Six months ago it wa wrecked and the engine and trans were sold as a pair (Jasper engine also) to someone else that needed it for his farm truck. It is still somewhere farming. My point run the trans as cool as you can - use a converter manual converter lock up switch (a locked converter makes much less heat, because it isn't compressing the oil to move the truck) And you have the best trans built for many years. I plowed snow with 4 gm trucks and turbo 400 GM transmissions now where near as good as my E40D was. The bad rap they gotis from over heating and I never liked the shift points. Also I let up slightly on the throttle to allow the trans to make a firm tight engagement before pulling hard and making more heat,especially when the converter was manually locked up.
That's my long winded story and I'm sticking to it. I hope this has been informative and useful.

Yes, letting off on the throttle a little bit when its about to shift, has become second nature to me and my driving style. Then get back into a bit once the shift has fully completed. After many years of doing that, I actually find it difficult to not let up on the throttle when its shifting.
 

oldmisterbill

Grumpy Old Man
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Posts
2,093
Reaction score
21
Location
Wagoner Oklahoma
Your right Kevin I doit when I drive a car now- life time habit. It makes m quiver when I ride with some one that that pushes the throttle down and hold it steady thru the gears. I rode once with a guy that loaded his trailer heavy with scrap iron all the way to the junk yard I could hear it slurp thru the shifts. I often wondered how long his transmissions held up.
The E40D had a lot of upgrades early in its life. When I had Jasper do my transmission on the road) they took me through the shop. There were 2 duromax engines in a room running at full throttle. the guy explained (when I asked why) that they do that till they break down to find weak points. This helps them find ways to prevent warranty work. On the E40D they made 13 or 15 mds that Ford later did (tey bought the modes from Jasper.
All Jasper engines and transmissions wer test run before they are sold. That was around 2003 any way. Their shops are amazing avery detail is covered and every engine has a file that tells who did what (exactly what) to te products.
My main point is the E40D is a darn good transmission. Im my mind better than most up till the 90 any way.
 

oldmisterbill

Grumpy Old Man
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Posts
2,093
Reaction score
21
Location
Wagoner Oklahoma
Thanks Russ but with your experience I don't think you need a programmer - you have the knowledge to get it right with your knowledge and your throttle foot.
 

trackspeeder

Stone crusher.
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Posts
4,090
Reaction score
232
Location
North Branford. CT
Automatic transmissions are designed to shift under full load.
When you back off the go peddle, the line pressure drops. This will make the shift softer, but it doesn't help save the tranny in any way. If anything there is more clutch wear from slippage.
 

Fision

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2017
Posts
109
Reaction score
67
Location
Alaska
Automatic transmissions are designed to shift under full load.
When you back off the go peddle, the line pressure drops. This will make the shift softer, but it doesn't help save the tranny in any way. If anything there is more clutch wear from slippage.

I do wonder if Kevin and OldMisterBill aren’t at least partially correct about easing up while shifting.
I was reading the specs on the Allison MD series trannies. The newer MD trannies with Shift Energy Management (SEM) get 10-20% more torque capacity than the identical setup without SEM.
As I understand it SEM is basically ‘easing up on the throttle’ electronically.
My 1995 IH 4900 doesn’t have SEM. I was trying to figure out how much I could squeeze the Bosch P7100 pump on the DT466 before worrying about the tranny (official answer- not much:(). I have also been trying toe-controlled SEM; but maybe that’s a bad idea??
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
91,217
Posts
1,128,504
Members
24,045
Latest member
Ramtough01
Top