New Project 6.9 E350, what did I get myself into.

6moose9

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[mention]DaveBen [/mention]

I filled it up but I’ll double check it.

[mention]IDIBRONCO [/mention]

Yeah a little late, I thought to do this right after I dropped them motor in and realized it was too late.

Gonna check my gauge, pull the sender unit at the back of the block and put my valve covers later on today so I visually see if oil is making it where it’s supposed to go later today.


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6moose9

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Worked on the van a little bit today, still no oil pressure.

Is there anyway to prime the oil system with the motor in the van? Perhaps back feeding the pump since it’s dry. I was going to try rotating the motor the opposite way a couple times. Maybe try pumping oil into the oil cooler from one of the 1/2 plugs on the side of it. Hypothetically is that possible? If so does any one know which oil cooler plug to use? I looked around but couldn’t seem to find a good oil schematic for the cooler.


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genscripter

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Since the oil pump is nothing more than a pickup tube and gear-driven pump, I'm not really sure why it would need to primed.

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just out of my own curiosity, I decided to read up on the official Ford Service Manual (1988) Diesel supplement, just to see if there are any notes on priming the pump. It doesn't say it requires anything like that. In theory, that pump should have no problem pushing oil.

If you wanted to prime the pump, you could remove the oil cooler headers and pour oil down the frontmost header port, but I think it's a waste of time. There is no pressure to keep the oil from just pouring down the oil pump port, down passed the pump chamber, and down the pickup tube to your crankcase oil. It'll just find its level, not really priming the pump.

If you wanted to see if your pump is pumping, you could remove your oil cooler and then put a pan under your block. If you crank it over and oil sprays out the frontmost port (that the first stop in the oil circulatory system after the pump), then you know that your oil pump is at least pushing some liquid.

That would be a messy test though. You'd have to drain your coolant and get some oil cooler header gaskets.... Probably a simpler test would be to pull off the oil filter, and see if your pump is pushing fuel through the oil cooler to the filter head. Any way you do it, it would mean cranking an engine without oil protection on your bearings. But judging by the previous post, you probably are already cranking a lot without knowing for sure your are getting oil to where it needs to be.

There is a port on the oil cooler headers that some turbo kits use to feed their assemblies... You could put an oil pressure gauge there, and see if you are getting some pressure.

Here's an image of the banks van kit setup... you can see the notation for "Turbo Oil Feed Line"

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Unfortunately, I don't have a pic of where it connects on the oil filter head/rear oil cooler header. It's just a threaded port. I'm sure it's easy to find.

Edit: Now that I think about it... I think it might be an oil port on the block behind the driver's side EM. It's been a while since I fiddled with that. I remember installing a mechanical guage using that port in 2017 when we were having issues with the stock oil pressure gauge (mounted on the top rear of the block). regardless, maybe it wasn't on the oil cooler headers after all.
 
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6moose9

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Alright so still haven’t figured out the oil pressure issue yet, gonna let it simmer for a bit and try to solve it next week. Going to try to pump some oil through the cooler and turn the motor backwards then try it. If that doesn’t work going to pull the pan and check the pump and feed gasket and replace with my spare oil pump I have.

I got some fuel system parts today and was able to finish up 99% of my fuel setup I have been working on. Pretty stoked on how it came out.

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Here’s a photo pre install in good light so you can kind of see what’s going on. The original manifold/junction I ordered ended up being back order for like 3 months so I had to change the plan up a little. Originally I was going to have one port in and three ports out (bleed, pressure sender and IP feed) since that the part was back ordered I ended up getting a two port manifold from Earls and opted to not run a fuel pressure sender. Not a big deal. So the lay out of it is as follows:

3/8 barb push lock to 6 -an to a -6 an to 3/8 npt 45 elbow into the manifold from my frame mounted filters/pump

Hits the gauge is in the center of the manifold which was a 1/8 NPT that I have to convert up to 1/4 NPT for the gauge

Then splits, on way goings out a -6 an 90 to 3/8 push lock barb down to the IP that I pulled the hardline fitting and had to convert it to an AN fitting so I could do a 3/8 push lock barb to -6 an. Which is the last part I need to finish it up. (Don’t remember the IP fitting size, forgot it. Will have that info in tomorrow when I pick it up.)

The other is for my bleeder. It is a -6 an out to a section of 12” stainless 3/8 tube flared for AN on both ends. On the other end it is -6 an to a 1/8 conversion so I could thread my bleeder valve into. (I don’t have the part number for it, I took the idea of this fuel setup out of Genscripters book. The previous post on this thread has the valve info on it)

I mounted it on the inside of the tunnel on the drivers side. There was a perfect flat spot where the throttle cable comes out. I used 2 1/4 rivnuts/nurserts. That you can get at most hardware stores/Home Depot/ETC. I bought the tool for it at Harbor Freight.

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I pulled off the 30 year old asbestos/noise/heat pad from the tunnel and I’m going to replace it with a thinner better heat shield/sound deadener in the tunnel and on the doghouse.

The manifold had holes for mounting that were 3/16 which is not a super common nursert size so I drilled the mounting holes out to 1/4 inch. This also gave me a little bigger diameter mounting bolt which may or may not help because I was a little worried about the weight of the entire setup and vibration.

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Here it is all mounted up. I have the gauge facing so I can see if from the front. I don’t have my radiator on yet so I may have to clock it 180 so I can see it through the doghouse if the radiator blocks my view if it.

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The bleeder valve comes out right above my vacuum pump.

Pretty stoked on how it came out. Defiantly my favorite part I’ve done on the rebuild so far. Now I just need to figure out my oil pressure, figure out my fuel return T, and tidy up some mounts for some of the lines and I can try to fire her up and make sure there’s no leaks.

Fingers crossed.


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genscripter

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I like it. The only thing I'd adjust is the length of your bleeder. My first iteration stopped about where yours is, and it was hard to fit a cup under the bleeder without it hitting the AC compressor. My 2nd iteration had a longer neck. But it's really nice. You'll like this so much more than the stock setup. Now you just flip the fuel pump switch (or key-on power) and walk over to the valve and purge the air. No cranking. Super nice. :)

I saw your post about the oil pump issue on facebook. (I'm currently zucced because I hurt someone's fee fees.) I honestly don't know why it's not pumping. I don't think backfeeding the pump will work. Did you get any oil out of the port with the filter off? It should at the very least be able to pump through the oil cooler to the filter head without any issues.
 

6moose9

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I like it. The only thing I'd adjust is the length of your bleeder. My first iteration stopped about where yours is, and it was hard to fit a cup under the bleeder without it hitting the AC compressor. My 2nd iteration had a longer neck. But it's really nice. You'll like this so much more than the stock setup. Now you just flip the fuel pump switch (or key-on power) and walk over to the valve and purge the air. No cranking. Super nice. :)

I saw your post about the oil pump issue on facebook. (I'm currently zucced because I hurt someone's fee fees.) I honestly don't know why it's not pumping. I don't think backfeeding the pump will work. Did you get any oil out of the port with the filter off? It should at the very least be able to pump through the oil cooler to the filter head without any issues.
Thanks man, yeah I was thinking either extending it with soft line, I didn’t want do it yet because I’m trying to clean up what under the hood space I have once everything is on. Mainly trying to get it running and home because I’ve been building it at my dads and he’s not a fan of the amount of 30 year old crust that’s it leaves in his shop.

That page is like the Wild West, they give some great advice sometimes...

As far as oil pressure, I’m not even getting oil to the filter. I don’t even want to crank it over anymore. I assembled with lube but I’m scared to damage something. I have a spare pump and pump gasket worst case if the pan has to come off. Hopefully get to do some more troubleshooting tomorrow or Monday.

I did read that the pumps sometimes struggle dry on some really old posts that talked about guys jacking the rear end up, adding an extra gallon or so and pumping oil back into the pump but I feel like it wouldn’t do much. I’m going to try it and if it doesn’t work I’m gonna just pull the pan.

Have you pulled your pan in the van before? I think I can fit it out if I jack the motor up and put blocks under the motor mounts. Shouldn’t be too messy since there’s oil in just the pan...


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genscripter

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Have you pulled your pan in the van before? I think I can fit it out if I jack the motor up and put blocks under the motor mounts. Shouldn’t be too messy since there’s oil in just the pan...


Wow. that website looks like it was designed in 1999, but the earliest archive.org record is from 2013. Crazy indeed.

If I were a bettin' man, I would personally download all that content to PDF's asap. I've found that old websites like that die off. They always say the "internet always remembers" but I've been burned way too many times looking for old vehicle websites that had amazing information and now are gone forever. Notably the Frybrid forum and the Pathfinder guy. Good god... would I love to have Chris and Gordon repost all their invaluable information back to the internet. I got to meet Chris in 2008. He helped us out on the trip back from Alaska, and his shop was a hoot.

Definitely inspect your regulator valve. It's possible that is siphoning off your pressure. I'd still expect some pressure or flow at the filter. not sure what is going on.

I've never pulled the pan on a van yet. I have often thought about how I'd do it, if the dreaded day ever occurred. I suspect it would be impossible, because the crossmember is just too close to the pan. Also, trying to remate the pan to the block with silicone would be very hard to accomplish when reinstalling the pan.

If I had to give it a try, I'd wager this would be my procedure. (Note, my van's IDI has a hypermax turbo kit, which means I have two up-pipes run from the EM's to the top sides of the tranny. Most stock van IDI's have the y-pipe under the tranny, and the banks van turbo kit also has the same obstruction. This becomes pertinent if you are trying to extract the pan toward the rear of the vehicle). I'd first remove the up- and down-pipes for the turbo. Then remove the turbo, air cleaner, and IP. This would allow me to hoist the block as high as possible in the engine bay. If you really wanted to get some extra clearance, you could also remove the intake. I'd remove the steering pump hoses. Since you have the e-pump, you don't have to disconnect your metal fuel lines to the lift pump. I'd disconnect the heater hoses and any other possible wires/hoses/connections that might have any strain from lifting the block.

Then, after disconnecting the mounts (and trans mounts), I'd jack the block up as high as possible. I use a special 1/4" steel plate on top my shopcrane with a notch to lift my van blocks, because using a hook or anything under the crane doesn't afford any room. video: https://www.nickpisca.com/diesel/en...i-engine-from-a-1988-ford-e250-econoline-van/

Even with that though, I suspect your biggest problem will be the doghouse and valve covers. If you lift your block up really high, the clearance of the intake-to-underside-of-ceiling height will be eclipsed by the distance-from-VC-to-doghouse-seals. I once dinged up a VC pulling an engine because I lifted it up too fast. I wasn't even close to the ceiling yet.

It's a really crappy situation. I suspect that you won't have enough room to pull the oil pan to clear the crossmember.

I remember reading about mechanics in the 80's cutting the crossmember in ambulances to access the pan or drop the block, then rewelding the crossmember back into place. I don't know if that was just an urban legend. But apparently, it saved them some time. I'm not too convinced that is true, because the crossmember is not flat... it's a tube, and I don't know how you'd reweld the top end of the crossmember with the new engine in place.

I suspect you'l have to also drop the tranny as well, because once you pull the pan, the trans and y-pipe will be in your way, obstructing your ability to slide the pan back to the rear of the van. That would mean disconnecting the TC, driveshaft, and tranny lines as well. At a certain point, it might be worth just pulling the entire motor. I know when I rebuilt my latest 7.3, I started it on a stand just to make sure my pump and parts were all functional prior to reinstalling the block, just because I knew I wouldn't have a second chance at this.

With all that said, it would be an interesting challenge to drop the pan with the engine in the bay. I'd definitely help you as much as possible. I remember guys telling me it was impossible to do the head gaskets in the van engine bay, but I pulled that off. Maybe your oil pan project will prove my predictions wrong.. :) I'm based in Inglewood, not too far away. Even if I'm just online support, or work out a plan to come up there, it would be interesting to see if the task is possible.
 

Selahdoor

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"Oh! We were in the van".

"You were disconnecting the tranny"

"You were on top".

"I was on the bottom".


Dood, you really need to better consider the words you choose to immortalize in your videos...

Just sayin...

;) :rotflmao
 

6moose9

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[mention]genscripter [/mention] as always, you’re the man. I appreciate it.

Mentally in my mind, I think dropping the pan in the bay can be done (or my mind telling me I want it to work). It actually being done is a different story.

As of right now I have my IP on my motor and nothing else is really hooked up. No radiator in, no cooling lines hooked up, no accessories. So it doesn’t seem “that bad”.

I’m thinking I can drain the oil I put it. It hasn’t gone anywhere into the motor yet. Jack the motor up as high as I can once I take the IP and valve covers off. Block the motor up, support some way that is safe. Drop the pan onto the crossmember and let it hang. While I unbolt the oil pump and then drop it into the pan, then finagle the whole the out. Clean the block up. Clean the pan up. Reinstall in reverse. Put oil pump in the pan, finagle it under, bolt pump up, Clean up pan and block again, run rtv and pan back on.

I still haven’t had a chance to touch it since last week but I’m hoping Tuesday I get a full day to dive in. I finally have everything I need to do a full fire up so I’m itching.

Hopefully have some updates soon.


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6moose9

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IDI GODS WERE GOOD TO ME! I got oil pressure!

I lucked out today and was able to prime my motor in the van and adverted having to pull the pan because I thought it was pump pressure.

I wanted to check and see if my pressure relief valve was stuck closed also and this test seemed to work for both I think.

What I did was removed the 1/2 pipe plug on the front of the rear intercooler head. As I suspected it was bone dry. I wasn’t getting oil to anywhere past the pump because I failed to fill it with oil/vasoline before install on the motor rebuild.

I then got a hand pump from harbor freight and a 3/8 barb to 1/2 npt pipe fitting and the thought process was I was going to push oil through to the pump. Here’s the set up installed and the pump I used.
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I routed my line through to the front of the motor because I didn’t know if I was going to need to rotate the motor backwards to get oil through the pump. I also removed the 1/8 pipe plug from the bottom left side of the block on the drivers side (the one most tap into for there turbo oil feed.

I started pumping until oil came out of the 1/8 plug hole then put the plug back in. I knew that oil was getting into the bottom end now via my hand pump.

Once I plugged that up, I continued pumping a quart or so into the oil cooler until I heard oil bubbles in the oil pan. I then pulled my fitting and hose and resealed my oilcooler with its 1/2 plug. Then cranked the motor over and within 1/2 seconds I could build pressure up to 20 psi.

Super stoked I was about to get this to work.
I really didn’t want to try to pull my pan on the van let alone pull the motor back out again.

With the oil pressure issue solved I could move on the to finishing up my fuel and IP stuff. I installed my IP, installed my new fuel lines and buttoned everything up.

Put about 5 gallons in my front tank, filled my filters with diesel and turned the key to prime the system. It took about 5 minutes to prime the whole system. The bleed set up is super easy and helps a lot. I purged the air out of the system like 3 times and I was holding between 7-10 psi before the IP.

Then cracked each injector at time and cranked until I had fuel leaking out. Tighten them all up and was ready to start the van.

I hit my GP switch and started cranking. It wouldn’t start. I cranked for a good 30 minutes on and off. Taking breaks for the starter and my battery charger to keep the batteries at a good level. She still didn’t start. I was getting fuel to the injectors and I had power to the Glow plugs so I didn’t know what was going on.

I ended up spraying something to help the motor get going and she fired right up. She ran rough for a little bit then evened out and everything sounded pretty good.

Once I was able to fire it up I ran it for a good 5/10 minutes, shut it down and then trying firing it again and it started right away.

I think the issue I’m having is not enough power to my GP’s. I have 12 volts at the relay coming from the battery but when I check voltage at the output of the relay to GP’s with my manual button pressed its 8/9 volts. Does that sound normal?

Other than that, I’m super stoked to reach this milestone. Now I can move on to bolting all the accessories up, installing the rest of the cooling system which I’m going to flush once that’s on the hopefully get to drive this thing!


Here’s a little celebratory video
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IDIBRONCO

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I'll bet that you never forget to prime an oil pump again. It really is an important part of rebuilding an engine.
 

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