Hydraulic Winch setup info needed.

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Answers can lead to knowledge.
Knowledge can lead to regret.
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The reservoir adds about another 85 pounds to the mix. Add the PTO pump, etc and easily pack on an additional 300 plus pounds over the weight of the winch.
Then comes the filling of the tank that could be fun.
Mile Marker has the kit that ties to the P/S and that is not an option I desire to pursue, however they might have the info of all other parts to connect to an actual hyd system and make it work.

You may be able to get some of your questions answered in this video series.....

I've watched ALL of Eric's videos. In the rebuild series, he buys a truck that has a PTO driven pump, and he has the original engine driven pump. With what he does with the truck, he explains his choices in what he uses....


At the 130 mark, he explains both systems. In this video he says he is going to try the PTO setup. Ultimately, he goes with the Belt Driven pump. I know this from watching the entire series....

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC--a7BvCHNmpqjJ-sXGQIaI2hImjOkxh

Here is the entire series on the build. Starting with the broken original truck, through the new truck back in the woods working. The playlist is "upside down" ... so start at the bottom and work your way up. I know it's off topic for this forum, but still an interesting series.

As I said, I've watched all his videos, and if your an off-roader, he has done some interesting recoveries. He still uses this truck, as the latest video is this truck, working at his clubs winter run...

I have a 12k milemarker, and while slow it seems to work well. Mine is plumbed to run off the powersteering pump, which is why it's so slow.

I would not expect to need anything over about 10 GPM for a typical winch - 30 is quite excessive IMHO. A 30 gpm pump would be quite large, as would the hoses, tank, lines, etc., not to mention the PTO. The 20-30k winches you mention are far too large for a pickup - those are sized for a semi or big wrecker. Heavy, cumbersome, large pain wire rope, etc. Probably just the static weight of the winch alone would be ******* the pickup frame, and anywhere near max capacity would probably pull the frame apart. I would spec something around 15k.

Using a 15k Warn https://www.warn.com/series-15-hydraulic-winch-15000-lb-65931 for example, 10 gpm gives you 13-18 ft/min (depending on layer) and 15 is 19-27. For comparison, a random electric 12k is 30 ft/min unloaded and only 3.8 ft/min at max load. https://www.warn.com/m12-12v-heavyweight-winch-17801

I would spec the pump to deliver 1/3 - 1/2 or so of rated max flow at idle - that is, ~5-8 gpm for the above winch. With a hydraulic winch you can always rev up the engine and get increased flow. If you spec 5 gpm at idle (650 rpm IIRC), you'll get ~8 at 1000, 10 @ 1300 & 15 @ 1900 rpm. Specing a slight bigger pump brings those numbers down, but you also have to be careful to not over rev and exceed flow ratings. The big reason IMHO for doing this is controllability. Unless you have a hand valve, the winch control is a binary switch - on/off, and when on you almost instantly have it spinning at the given speed for the flow rate, and beyond that there's very little 'loading up' where the speed drops off under load as you see on an electric. So, if you spec it for max flow at idle you have no easy way to run the winch at any speed other than max, which is very likely much too fast for many situations. Specing for a lower flow allows you to have a slower more controlled winch speed at idle, and then you can increase winch speed by 2-3x with engine throttle.

Also, the pump flow rate is proportional to the torque, which means shafting/pto spec and engine load - as discussed earlier, 30 gpm at max pressure is ~50 hp, which is a considerably amount to get out a light duty pto/trans and idi at low rpm.

A 30 gpm system probably needs a 20+ gallon tank and a good sized cooler as well, with 1" pressure hose and 1-1/2 - 2" suction and fittings to match. None of that is easy to fit on a pickup. 10-15 gpm brings that down quite a bit, though still a challenge to mount.

Keep in mind that you really need the tank to be above the pump, or at least fluid level therein to be, and ideally well above. Where are you going to mount a tank? Putting it in the bed is about the only practical option, but then a belt drive pump needs to be located low and has a longer than desirable suction line. I have thought about relocating the batteries to the frame and putting a hydraulic tank on the fender liner on one side (probably passenger) but it hasn't gone any further than thinking about it. Lots of moving parts there.

Specing a PTO is complex, and even within the same PTO model there's numerous options for shaft, rotation direction, gear ratio, trans fit, etc. On the ZF trans, IIRC there's even different PTOs for wide vs narrow, and the S5-42 and S5-47 are different as well. Point being, unless you find a complete used setup (trans/pto/pump) and know how it's speced be very careful trying to get a used PTO, and don't count on finding one that will work used. Buying a new one is certainly an option, but not cheap. Running a belt drive is easier in this respect, though figuring out how to mount it and runs the belt(s) on the idi is a difficult as well.

My opinion:
There are lost of affordable winches in the 8K category, cost and weight go up quickly when buying bigger. I have (arguably) the best 8K winch money can buy (Warn 8274), and a good snatch block. The way I see it I have an reasonably sized (weight) winch with up to 16K capability. It is also plenty fast for 90% of the pulling I do and I don't have to wrestle with 3/8 or 1/2" cable required for a bigger winch.

I also dream of a Milemarker hydraulic and using the PS pump; I love the idea of continuous duty but hydraulic is slow. If I was big into mudding or rock crawling then I would probably want a bigger winch, and would therefore go hydraulic.

On my last truck (Ford Ranger) I built my own hydraulic winch. It was rated 8000 lbs; I installed a belt driven two-stage log splitter pump where the a/c compressor should have been. That was an awesome winch; I have repurposed it to use on my tractor 3pt and rear remotes.

Well, I have sent an email off to Warn and Mile Marker. That was a few days ago and Mile Marker responded with the 10.5 winch could be hooked up to the P/S lines. Nothing larger. Using a snatch block could then effectively double the pulling strength.
Fair enough.
Ford Power whining steering pump. Uh, not quite. That and a reservoir of 1/2 pint (?) does not really excite me either.
So using the 10.5 winch, convert to a Saginaw pump with a remote reservoir, filter and a trans cooler.
That is one present option especially if also running a hydro-boost brake system.
That 10.5 winch with a snatch block would give you, I believe, about a 45 foot usable range.
Meanwhile my Warn 12K electric is running 125' of 3/8 inch cable. That is effectively 60 feet with a snatch block.

I am starting to wonder about my intelligence of adding the BW1356 with the PTO.
That's ok. I will probably be crawling under the truck in another day or two and might look at how much reservoir space I have to potentially work with.

Pulling of the A/C compressor woud not sit well with the wife who just made her first noise about this undertaking. Words to the effect of "We can't afford it this year."
I already told her I was looking at the October time frame, then again, I might be getting my second knee replaced.

Just prioritize things. Do what you need to do first.

Noiseydiesel said:

Well, I have sent an email off to Warn and Mile Marker. That was a few days ago and Mile Marker responded with the 10.5 winch could be hooked up to the P/S lines. Nothing larger. U

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I think someone is giving you bad info. Here's what I got back when I asked about max specs:

Max for our winches are,

103.4 Bar (1500 PSI) on all winches.
15.9 liters per minute (4.2 GPM) on the 9000lbs and 10500lbs winches using our valve.
37.85 liters per minute (10 GPM) on the 9000lbs and 10500lbs winches if you are not using our valve.
22.7 liters per minute (6 GPM) on the 12000lbs winches using our valve.
45.42 liters per minute (12 GPM) on the 12000lbs winches if you are not using our valve.

Granted, this was in 2012, but I doubt it's much different. Now, you would probably need to use larger diameter hose than what is supplied (1/4" IIRC), but that's not hard.

I know the P/S pump can give off 1500 PSI and the MM 10.5K winch runs out supposedly at 1450 PSI according to the message I got. There were no other specs given any any other winches and your info is appreciated.
Running a winch off the P/S pump can be a good option, however as I write this I am unaware of the GPM of a P/S Pump.
Currently my two options are the P/S pump and the PTO option. Top mounted pump would be nice but not pulling the A/C off. Your wife might still talk to you. Mine won't.
My desire is to run an 18K winch for the top line rated pull strength using a straight line.
Warn runs a 1/2" cable at 75 feet. For me the 18K winch would give a decent line pull rating both distant and close. Yeah, I know. Overkill.
Back to the drawing board. . . .

Ps pump is about 1 gpm, and makes for winching that could be outrun by a lethargic slug.

Just tripped across a web site talking about changing Saginaw pumps to increase the flow rate and the best they can do is about 3 GPM.
Fudgesicles.
The Warn 18K hyd winch is 2400 PSI at 15 GPM.
This is getting to a PTO real quick.
Unless I desire the 10.5 MM at potential sluggo speed.
Now leaning towards the PTO option possibly.

Noiseydiesel said:

Now leaning towards the PTO option possibly.

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I sure would if it was me. Otherwise, it would be next to useless running that slowly.

3 GPM puts more stress and strain on P/S hoses and such. Might not be a great idea.
3 GMP is not going to get me to 15 GPM for the 18K winch,
nor is 1500 PSI from a P/S pump when I am reaching for 2400 PSI.
MM 10.5 winch is a great set up for the basic P/S set up.
Hope y'all are gettting educated out there.
I am sidetracked selling a camper.